X-Message-Number: 29704 Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 19:45:37 -0700 (PDT) From: tiffany summer <> Subject: Re: religion and cryonics --0-276413420-1186368337=:2525 David Stodolsky wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Yes, the economic advantages of offering cryopreservation for > elderly or > sick people with no chance of recovery and a poor quality of life > are clear. > However I cannot see it being acceptable ethically, however > illogical this > is. This is precisely why large numbers of members are needed. When politicians see that there is a sizeable group of highly organized voters for the cryo option, they will allow it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, I agree. Some cryonicists have already seen this. But most seem not to care about it. david wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > Barring unlikely events, our tide is coming in, but faster progress is > important and just possibly essential. Every one of us has the > opportunity to > contribute at least a little more. It might help if everyone who > does something > positive were to report it, hopefully contributing to a contagion > of spirit. This still the individual model. A move to a group-oriented model is the way to dramatically accelerate growth. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, I agree. In fact, other cryonicists have also noted that growth has slowed down because cryonics seems to appeal only to a niche market of knowledge-oriented people. david wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > re a church like organisation for cryonics: > >> However, no financial support for even exploring this concept has >> ever materialized. > > No one ever got rich over cryonics, and probably never will. The > Venturists, > I should have thought, fill the specification of being a church like > organisation, and that only survives through the enthusiasm of its two > founders. http://www.venturist.org That was set up with the idea of servicing those signed-up already. What I am talking about is servicing those not yet signed-up. Another difference is that it is a service to individuals, while the group aspect is inherent in the idea I am proposing. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yes, we need to reach out to the masses where they live, where their lives are. david wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > Many churches accrete a relatively large membership before they start > collecting money. There has to be a enough support to get a group going and self- financing. Once there is a model that works, it can be duplicated indefinitely. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, churches do grow from the ground up. But a charasmatic preacher is required to do this. david wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > In the meantime, cryonics service providers get finance from > bequests above > the minimum cryopreservation fees. As many cryonicists are single > people, or > signed as couples, this inward flow will not abate. Funds sent to > publicity > or other support organisations, whether by bequest or otherwise, > will only > detract from this important funding to service providers. There is > no point > in having funded some other project to have your CSP go bust whilst > you are > under cryopreservation. The biggest threat in the medium to long term is political. It may not be tractable without much greater numbers of supporters. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, and we have to be careful where we are, because if we scare too many people when we have so few members, some politician may outlaw cryonics david wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > I ve already said it over and over, along with many > others, but I ll say it again: (1) Religion is not a major part > of our > problem, and (2) We in cryonics could in any event at most > contribute only a trifle > to any crusade against religion, and (3) We don t need to arouse > hostility > where it doesn t exist. This fails to see that the church is the vehicle of culture in almost all societies. However, it is true that the cryonics movement at the moment is not in a position to confront the dominant religious organizations. In fact, it may never be in such a position, since it doesn't offer the full range of services that those organizations offer. Thus, there is a short range and a long range argument that pull in different directions. Overcoming cultural inertia requires a vehicle of culture accepting cryonics. That means a church like organization. I have put forward this proposal repeatedly and even gotten support from the List. However, no financial support for even exploring this concept has ever materialized. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, we need to insert the idea of cryonics into mainstream religion. That is where the people are. That is where cryonics should be. A church with a preacher who incorporates the idea of immortalism and cryonics into orthodox protestantism is a good start. First, one church, then another, then another. Tiffany Summers http://christiancryonicists.blogspot.com/ http://a-girl-exploring-cryonics.blogspot.com/index.html Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! 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