X-Message-Number: 29704
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 19:45:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: tiffany summer <>
Subject: Re: religion and cryonics

--0-276413420-1186368337=:2525

David Stodolsky  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
  > Yes, the economic advantages of offering cryopreservation for  
> elderly or
> sick people with no chance of recovery and a poor quality of life  
> are clear.
> However I cannot see it being acceptable ethically, however  
> illogical this
> is.
  This is precisely why large numbers of members are needed. When  
politicians see that there is a sizeable group of highly organized  
voters for the cryo option, they will allow it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
  

Yes, I agree. Some cryonicists have already seen this. But most seem not to care
about it.
   
  
david wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> Barring unlikely events, our tide is coming in, but faster progress is
> important and just possibly essential. Every one of us has the  
> opportunity  to
> contribute at least a little more. It might help if everyone who  
> does  something
> positive were to report it, hopefully contributing to a contagion  
> of  spirit.
  This still the individual model. A move to a group-oriented model is  
the way to dramatically accelerate growth.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
  

Yes, I agree. In fact, other cryonicists have also noted that growth has slowed 
down because cryonics seems to appeal only to a niche market of 
knowledge-oriented people.
  david wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> re a church like organisation for cryonics:
>
>> However, no financial support for even exploring this concept has
>> ever materialized.
>
> No one ever got rich over cryonics, and probably never will. The  
> Venturists,
> I should have thought, fill the specification of being a church like
> organisation, and that only survives through the enthusiasm of its two
> founders. http://www.venturist.org
  That was set up with the idea of servicing those signed-up already.  
What I am talking about is servicing those not yet signed-up. Another  
difference is that it is a service to individuals, while the group  
aspect is inherent in the idea I am proposing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
   

  yes, we need to reach out to the masses where they live, where their lives 
  are.
   
  david wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> Many churches accrete a relatively large membership before they start
> collecting money.
  There has to be a enough support to get a group going and self- 
financing. Once there is a model that works, it can be duplicated  
indefinitely.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

  Yes, churches do grow from the ground up. But a charasmatic preacher is 
  required to do this.
   
  
david wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
  >
> In the meantime, cryonics service providers get finance from  
> bequests above
> the minimum cryopreservation fees. As many cryonicists are single  
> people, or
> signed as couples, this inward flow will not abate. Funds sent to  
> publicity
> or other support organisations, whether by bequest or otherwise,  
> will only
> detract from this important funding to service providers.  There is  
> no point
> in having funded some other project to have your CSP go bust whilst  
> you are
> under cryopreservation.
  The biggest threat in the medium to long term is political. It may  
not be tractable without much greater numbers of supporters.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

  Yes, and we have to be careful where we are, because if we scare too many 
  people when we have so few members, some politician may outlaw cryonics
   
  
david wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
  > I   ve already said it over and  over, along with many
> others, but I   ll say it again: (1) Religion is not a major  part  
> of our
> problem, and (2) We in cryonics could in any event at most   
> contribute only a trifle
> to any crusade against religion, and (3) We don   t need  to arouse  
> hostility
> where it doesn   t exist.
  This fails to see that the church is the vehicle of culture in almost  
all societies. However, it is true that the cryonics movement at the  
moment is not in a position to confront the dominant religious  
organizations. In fact, it may never be in such a position, since it  
doesn't offer the full range of services that those organizations  
offer. Thus, there is a short range and a long range argument that  
pull in different directions.
  Overcoming cultural inertia requires a vehicle of culture accepting  
cryonics. That means a church like organization. I have put forward  
this proposal repeatedly and even gotten support from the List.  
However, no financial support for even exploring this concept has  
ever materialized.
  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

  Yes, we need to insert the idea of cryonics into mainstream religion.  That is
  where the people are. That is where cryonics should be. A church with a 
  preacher who incorporates the idea of immortalism and cryonics into orthodox 
  protestantism is a good start. First, one church, then another, then another.
   
  
  Tiffany Summers
http://christiancryonicists.blogspot.com/
http://a-girl-exploring-cryonics.blogspot.com/index.html

       
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