X-Message-Number: 30041 From: Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 15:11:03 EST Subject: Stodolsky Stodolsky wrote in part: "[research shows that] there is a reflexive avoidance of death of the self." First, it is mind-numbing that anyone seriously requires "research" to learn that most people, most of the time, feel a dread of extinction (provided there is a clear and present threat). If you do a lot more research, perhaps you will discover that most people, most of the time, get hungry when they miss a meal. Second, it completely avoids the easily observed fact that many people, a significant amount of the time--in particular, those living in physical misery--do not fear death, judging both by their statements and by their actions. One example I gave was of dialysis patients, who quite often give up and accept death. Obviously, it is possible to theorize or quibble that at some unconscious level these people "really" do fear death but submerge that fear in response to other pressures--but this is just jabber. Stodolsky also says that martyrdom is not an exception to fear of death, since the martyrs believe they are going to live in heaven. First, not all martyrs believe in heaven by a long shot. As one of many examples, the Russian and Chinese Communists who gave their lives, either in battle or by working themselves to death, were atheists and materialists. They sacrificed not for any objective reward but for an ideal, for posterity, because they were indoctrinated. In other words, they replaced fear of death either with love of humanity or fear of disapproval or of conscience. Again, a quibbler could claim that the "fear of death" was present but overpowered, but again this would be dodging the issue. Finally, and most importantly from a practical level, we have Stodolsky's repeated advice that we need to hire professional marketers for cryonics, including "a social science PhD to deal with social issues." Oh, boy. Talk about not paying attention. First of all, professional marketers--with or without doctorates in a social science--as far as I have been able to ascertain, have a very poor record of results. They are hired mainly to cover the butts of the managers. They are also hired mainly to help the firm against competitors, not usually to open an entirely new market or category. What marketers are best at is selling themselves, and most of them aren't even very good at that. More importantly, professional marketing has been tried in cryonics with nothing to show for it. Most recently, according to my sketchy information, Alcor hired a PR firm at considerable expense, but as far as I know nothing much happened. Next, Stodolsky says we are failing to address the proper demographics, and should for one thing aim at the middle-aged. Presumably this is because the middle-aged are more likely to join. Again, anyone who has been paying attention knows that "more likely" means just very very very unlikely instead of very very very very unlikely. There is no way I know of to address the middle-aged exclusively short of paid advertising, which has never worked. Similar remarks apply to the problem of possible future hostile pressures. I know of no way a marketer or PR firm could do us any measurable good. And while we can't rule out hostile actions, they do not seem to be building, but the opposite. Media coverage in recent years has tended to be more friendly, and when a hostile catalyst appeared in the Ted Williams case, there was only a brief and ineffectual rising. In a way, our very long and slow growth has been helpful in this respect. The early hysterical warnings against cryonics were proven false. We are probably more or less grandfathered in now--there is some inertia working for us. And we also remember that the U.S. tolerates all kinds of minorities, many of them much more offensive to the majority than cryonics. I'm not advocating complacency, but caution and realism. P.S. Thanks to the cab driver who inspires no fear. Robert Ettinger **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" [ AUTOMATICALLY SKIPPING HTML ENCODING! ] Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=30041