X-Message-Number: 30223 Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 11:40:07 -0800 (PST) From: 2Arcturus <> Subject: Cryonicist F.M. Esfandiary on the year 2010 --0-1592408274-1198957207=:93487 >>>However, FM screwed up when he connected these forecasts with the prediction, made by many other 20th Century futurists and science fiction writers, that manned space exploration would become our civilization's defining activity. I wouldn't say he thought it would become our "defining activity". But I do think he was right that humans will eventually spread throughout the universe, and this will have an obviously profound impact on our civilization. In my opinion, space colonization is awaiting certain enabling technologies that for some reason earlier futurists overlooked: adapting the human body to live simply in outer space by massive biomodification or human-machine merger (requires comprehensive understanding of and ability to manipulate human body and/or mind), inexpensive propulsion methods to escape Earth's gravity well or a space elevator, etc. >>>I don't necessarily consider this progress. Conservatives have an empirically defensible case for the value of marriage in proper child rearing. But do they have an empirically defensible case for child rearing at all? :) >>>FM and other progressive intellectuals from his era received their educations during the ascendancy of behaviorist theories of human nature, so they tended to overestimate human plasticity when it came to pair-bonding and child development. Cognitive neuroscience has changed the look of things lately. Yes, you're right about that. But that just means changing human nature efficiently will have to await modification of neural plasticity or modification of basic mind architectures after uploading. (And THAT explains why it hasn't happened as fully yet.) >>>Perhaps, but FM back in 1981 thought that we'd have radical life extension as a done deal by now, regardless of the proposed means. I don't value FM-2030 for his prediction dates, but rather for his vision. IMO Kurzweil prob has the best approach to dating. If Kurzweil's dates are wrong, we will know exactly why, because he pegs them to actual trends in specific tech developments, etc. Notice that scientists today don't fully or even mostly understand gene effects in the human body, or the full human metabolism, or even how a single cell works (look at the failed attempts to reverse-engineer life). Extending lifespan and repairing all injury and disease is a tall order for doctors who are still basically working in the dark. We have a LOT to learn. For now, it's a case of expect the best but prepare for the worse. But it is important to have the vision, which is what FM-2030 gave, and Aubrey de Grey has basically picked up that torch now. >>>Calling FM a prophet implies that you consider him the founder of a religion. No, to me a prophet is someone who presents a vision, an ideal hope for the future that people can work toward. Science provides the means, but it does not provide the goal, or the drive. Greg Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. --0-1592408274-1198957207=:93487 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 [ AUTOMATICALLY SKIPPING HTML ENCODING! ] Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=30223