X-Message-Number: 30339 From: David Stodolsky <> Subject: Time for an Industry Association? (was: Re: Avoiding Decompos... Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 10:31:53 +0100 References: <> On 18 Jan 2008, at 02:24, david pizer wrote: > Alcor had a huge lead on CI just 8 or 9 years ago This appears to be an artifact of the starting conditions. Alcor membership growth took off in 1976. CI membership growth took off in 1986, with 16 members that year. Alcor had 71 members at that point . So, Alcor had a head start in membership growth compared to CI. Growth-rate increase changed in 1993-1994 (14 years ago) at Alcor. However, even before that time, growth-rate increase was 8% greater at CI. So, there appear to be two types of influences on growth-rate increase. The overall lower growth rate could be related to structural conditions (organizational structure, participant attitudes, etc.). The change could result from the same type of factors or from a change in Board or employee composition, etc. Without some historical or demographic information, it is not possible to draw any solid conclusions from this change. It does appear, however, that CI was able to benefit from a Web presence. From 1998 on, growth seems much faster, with a doubling time closer to three years - 23 percent per year improvement in growth rate. While this is a change in just 6% in growth-rate increase, the earlier doubling time was about five years. So, small changes in the underlying factors can result in large changes over the long run. There is no evidence of a benefit to Alcor from a Web presence. However, this could be masked by the other instabilities which seem to affect Alcor. These analyses are of underlying factors (growth-rate increases and stability in growth-rate increases). Alcor's growth rate is still increasing. It is just not increasing as fast as CI's. This means that numbers of members and patients will become greater at CI. However, it doesn't mean Alcor is heading toward dissolution. What is probably worth comparing are the efforts being made at each organization to effect growth. If more resources are are being expended at Alcor, there is probably something that could be done better (the unknown here is possible differences in participant attitudes, etc. that could also be having an effect. For example, if Alcor's members were much more individualistic than CI's members and therefore had fewer colleagues, etc. and if word-of-mouth is the main way in which new members are recruited, then we could explain the differences by that type of factor. Currently, I have no solid data that could be used to explain the differences.) There is also the difference in pricing structures between the two organizations. It could be that they are actually operating in different markets as a result. Alcor, with its higher prices, could be attracting the wealthy, who leave their large estates to Alcor when they deanimate, thus ensuring growth well beyond what could be expected from the above figures. On the other hand, these wealthy individuals may be putting their estates in trusts and leaving nothing to Alcor, thus putting Alcor in a worse position than CI. Without more comprehensive data, it is extremely difficult to reach any kind of conclusion about what the above figures mean, beyond their own domain, or to claim that a solution to the 'problems at Alcor' is needed. At the moment, we have only a vague idea of why people sign up for suspension, what their demography is, and how they received information about bio-stasis. This, combined with the deficit in information about the organizations and their activities, makes it virtually impossible to conclude anything from the few statistics we do have. The result of this ignorance is suspicion, unwarranted attacks upon organizations, and an inability to undertake meaningful investments in the future of cryonics. Much of the data needed for the type of analysis required for problem identification or for constructive suggestions could be considered confidential to either the members or their organizations. At the moment, organizations can be accused of being secretive, if they don't reveal such data. An impartial industry association is needed which could look at such data and give advice to the organizations based upon analysis. Such an organization could also provide marketing support and engage directly in public education. It would be more effective in this role than an organization actually providing services. Such a neutral body could also go a long way toward eliminating the destructive competition between organizations that has been seen over the years. Perhaps, it is time to revived this idea and get all cryonics and related service providers to support such an effort, with data and by subscribing to an industry Code of Conduct. This kind of body has proved essential for successful industrial groups, and could be a key to gaining credibility for cryonics in scientific and political circles, as well as among the general public. About 10 years ago, we got the following statement: http://www.alcor.org/Library/html/institution.html "Organizational Evaluation, or the provision of objective consumer information is heretofore unknown in cryonics. And it is the most appropriate area for independent endeavor. Too bad there won't be enough of a market to support such an effort for some time. In the meanwhile, the would-be consumers of cryonic suspension services will have to fend for themselves by carefully reading each organization's literature, inspecting its facilities, and interviewing its personnel." With the exponential growth the movement is seeing, this will not continue to be workable, unless the organizations' personnel are going to do little else but meet with prospective members. At the moment, we have information circulating the suggests at least two organizations have been wasting large sums, millions of dollars, in one case. If this is true, then an industry body that could put a stop to this would be a net saving, even if funded for a couple of full-time positions. If the information is false, then the rumors of corruption should be put to rest as soon as possible. If there is one thing that can destroy the forward momentum we currently see, it is publicity of corrupt practices that have become widespread. At this point, I would say the industry can't afford not to have an independent body that could get the problems resolved, whatever their cause. Some years back, I was involved in an effort to establish an industry organization. There was inadequate support to get it going at that time. Establishment of a Code of Conduct seems essential. This first step would, at least, allow totally uninformed people to avoid charlatans, who appear from time to time and have the effect of discrediting the entire industry. One requirement of the Code would be to provide adequate information to the Industry Organization. This information would allow an impartial evaluation of the organization's capabilities, so an independent assessment could be made. One requirement would be that the claims made in the organization's literature corresponded to the actual capabilities. Further details would be reached by mutual agreement among all organizations involved during finalization of the agreement. dss David Stodolsky Skype: davidstodolsky Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=30339