X-Message-Number: 3046
Date: 01 Sep 94 23:44:30 EDT
From: Mike Darwin <>
Subject: CRYONICS brain cryopreservation costs

Richard Schroepel writes:

>>My personal guess is more like $5 trillion.  If each hard-core
>>cryonicist will contribute only $10 billion, we can reach my figure.

I find this fascinating.  How did you arrive at this figure, Richard?

As to the costs for developing kidney preservation:

1) That depends upon how you want to rack up the charges.  If you want to

include all the money spent by arrogant and misguided surgeons in the early days
who thought you just go in freeze kidneys after running a liter or two of 15%
DMSO through them the total will be far higher than if you just include the

costs of the basic researxch done to understand the mechanisms of cryoinjury and
begin solid, focused application of these theoretical insights to kidney
preservation.

2)  Currently, we understand the mechanics of cryoinjury passably well.  For
instance, we understand them well enmough to know that one likely way to avoid
cryoinjury is to avoid freezing by vitrifying.  So, the operatinal question
becomes how close are we to vitrification of a kidney?  What are the obstacles
in the way of success?  How much did it cost to get this far?  How much will it
cost to go the rest of the way for kidney.

Consider the following:

* Greg Fahy's group has perfused rabbit kidneys with a *vitrifiable* amount of
agent, cooled them to -30xC, rewarmed them,washed out the cryoprotectant, *and
had the kidney support the animal was the SOLE kidney IMMEDIATELY after
transplantation with INDEFINITE SURVIVAL.  I might add that tghis has now been
achieved without recourse to ultra high pressurization during cooling,
eliminating the need for this costly, troublesome and damaging step in the
procedure.

*Kidney slices, which can obviously be warmed at much higher rates than intact
kidneys, have been vitried successfully demonstrating normal function such as
Na+/K+ ratios and PAH uptake as well as normal ultrastructure following
rewarming.  This is an important proof of principle.

* Kidneys have not been vitrified (i.e., cooled to -130xC) because they must be
rewarmed following vitrification at rates in the range of 300 to 400 xC per

minute.  This is do-able.  In fact a unit has been built by Paul Ruggera's group
at the FDA which is capable of warming vitrified *dog* kidneys (as well as

rabbit kidneys) from -130xC at the appropriate rate without "hot spots" or other
complications.

The reason kidneys have not been rewarmed in the apparatus has in large part
been due to the following:

a) Ruggera has been unable to get permission from the FDA to cooperate with Dr.
Fahy and the Red Cross and use this apparatus (no surprizes there, huh?)

b) The Red Cross has decided to abandon organ cryopreservation.  Dr. Fahy's lab
has been shut down and is now moving to the Navy, which is interested in
pursuing the work but which is als funding Dr. Fahy primarily for other work.
What other work?  Well, it seems that the FDA recently got control over medical
products used on soldiers.  In the past, the military could quick path drugs or
use procedures or devices unapproved for civilians for wartime or field use on
casualties.  No more.  Now, the military must go through the SAME approval

process as the civilian biomedical sector.  This has created a slight problem in

that the military now has millions of dollars worth of cryopreserved blood which
they cannot legally infuse, and what is worse, no way to remedy the problem
without further research to meet FDA approval.

Enter Dr. Fahy.

*As to how much has been spent on developing organ cryopreservation in Dr.
Fahy's lab, I would guess that the total over the past decade is around 2
million dollars.  I will ask Dr. Fahy when he rerturns from Japan in a few days
the exact estimated figure.


*I would further point out that Dr. Fahy's research was augmented by the work of
others such as Pegg's group in the UK (disbanded several years ago).  I believe
the total amount spent there was well under $1 million US, and frankly, much of
that was spent on "unfocused" academic work unrelated to the central issue of
achieving organ preservation. (I.e., there is this problem we scientists have:
when we see something interesting, we often want to go down the trail and

investigate it, whether it is on the main path or not.  This is a delightful way
to spend your time if you are not under a death senetence and if you have
indefinitely large sums of you own, or someone else's money to spend.)


I want to point out that I think $5 million is a generous (i.e., upper) estimate
for brain cryopreservation.  A lot of the hard, slogging, theoretical work has
been done.

Finally, I would commend EACH of you to a fascinating if somewhat bizzare task.
Go to your public library and check out a book called *No Man Knows My History*
by Fawn M. Brodie.  It is a history of the Mormom Church.  If your library

doesn't have this book, I suggest you call up Barnes and Noble and buy a copy of
*In Mormon Circles: Gentiles, Jack Mormons, and Latter Day Saints* by James

Coates (ISBN# 0-201-51-758-2) Barnes and Noble: (201) 767-7079. B&N  carries the
book for about $6.00 (and incidentally if you like books you'll love B&N; they
are one of the the best discount book houses in world).


Why do I reccommend these books or a study of Mormonism?  Simply because this is
one of the most fascinating chapters in American history.  These people
singlehandedly tamed a large share of the American West and currently represent

a significant political force in the US (James Fletcher, NASA director, is LDS).
I bring them up in the context of research because of what they were able to
achieve in part do to titheing -- the giving of 10% of their income to the
church to achieve core church objectives and provide charity (self insurance).

I will not insult the history of the LDS church by trying to tritely summarize
the hurculean tasks they achieved in the past or are continuing to achieve.
That is an understanding that can be had only by the reader who is serious
enough to read either of the two books I cite.  The Coates book is in some ways

a better overview of Mormon history in the context of the kind of achievement it
represents.

Any cryonicist who reads of these people, regardless of what you think of their
rationality or the reasonableness of their underlying beliefs, should be
humbled.

And, once you understand what these people have done,  if you question whether
or not brain cryopreservation is within our grasp, you should have your head
examined.  Sorry to be so blunt, but history's lessons are clear.

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