X-Message-Number: 3052 From: Date: Sun, 04 Sep 94 12:11:51 EDT Subject: SCI. CRYONICS perspective Some people in cryonics are long-term pessimists, in a certain sense, and short-term optimists. They think there is only a low probability of people frozen by current methods ever being revived; at the same time, they think there is a good chance of achieving fully reversible human brain cryopreservation within a few years for a few million dollars. My view is the opposite; I am a long term optimist and short term pessimist. My reasons are simple and clear, and as usual I find it amazing that anyone can disagree with me. (Of course, I sometimes also find my own previous opinions amazing.) 1. I think it is nearly certain that people frozen by today's methods (even after considerable delay) and kept in cryogenic storage--or even if they are just tossed into a vat of liquid nitrogen--will eventually be revivable by future technology. (I hope it need not be emphasized that this does not mean I am complacent about procedures.) There are many reasons for this long term optimism, but the simplest bottom line is that I believe the universe is strictly deterministic. This means that no information is ever lost, and with enough time, wealth, and incentive any previous structure can be repaired or rebuilt. Why do I think strict determinism governs the world? Simply because--as far as I can see--there is no alternative. As far as I know, the only alternative ever even PROPOSED is that of partial "randomness," as in the usual interpretation of quantum mechanics. But randomness in the objective sense--partial or otherwise--seems to me a meaningless term. At any rate, I have never read or heard a definition or explanation of objective randomness that was coherent or intelligible, let alone persuasive. 2. Why am I skeptical about achieving fully reversible human brain cryopreservation in a few years for a few million dollars? Fourth, I have seen no convincing rationale for this proposition. Third, the kidney problem has proven intractable for many years, and the brain problem may (or may not) be much harder. Second, research is often impossible to compress in time, no matter how much money you throw at it. Progress often has to build step by step, with time in between to ponder and think and gather resources and new ideas and allow workers to criticize and consult each other. First, there is a very general lesson exemplified by the example I have often used, that of the flying flivver. When I was growing up, around 1930, a newspaper ran a feature on expected advances of the next 50 years. Prominent among them was the "flying flivver"--a kind of family helicopter, cheap enough and simple enough and safe enough so anyone could use it. Well, more than 50 years have passed, and the flying flivver is not even on the horizon--even though, many will agree, its difficulty from the standpoint of 1930 was probably MUCH less than the difficulty, from the standpoint of 1994, of fully reversible brain cryopreservation. Again, needless to say, this is not an argument against trying to accelerate research; quite the contrary. But it is a reminder that we should keep perspective. What we KNOW is that we can preserve people with limited damage, and that unless we can KEEP them preserved their chances will be minimal. This means, I think, that considerations of price and long term stability are at least as important as accelerated research. Robert Ettinger Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=3052