X-Message-Number: 30785 From: Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 11:21:17 EDT Subject: self interest, more elucidation Chris Manning writes in part: >I would say that whether Bob's position is correct depends on how you define >'self-interest' and that on its broadest interpretation, it is impossible >not to do something out of self-interest - because to say that you are doing >it out of self-interest (on this broadest possible interpretation) is a >tautology. It is impossible *not* to find something about an action which >*could* be seen as being in the person's self-interest. Not quite on target. First of all, my position is not that all behavior arises out of self interest, but rather all conscious, motivated behavior. Obviously, we do many things without conscious thinking or with minimal thinking out of habit or indoctrination. Equally obviously, some of those unthinking choices are counterproductive. In a sense, choosing on the basis of self interest is a tautology, true by definition. "Motivation" means what moves you, i.e. what drives the choice, and what moves YOU is what YOU want, regardless of the reason and regardless of the outcome or of conflict with other goals. But saying it is a tautology does not vitiate its usefulness. Delusion, such as the common delusion of altruism, is sometimes comfortable but always dangerous and sometimes fatal. Once more, appealing to the "organic" character of groups or the psychological benefits of group loyalty misses the point. It is not a question of what we want, but of what we ought to want, based on our best estimate of the consequences of our actions on our future well being. No one denies that "fitting in" is usually important or that conformance and magnanimity etc. tend to have their benefits, internal and external. Relatively few people need to be told that it usually pays to be nice. But almost everybody needs to be shown or reminded that evolution and tradition can harm or kill us. Robert Ettinger **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002) Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" [ AUTOMATICALLY SKIPPING HTML ENCODING! ] Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=30785