X-Message-Number: 30785
From: 
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 11:21:17 EDT
Subject: self interest, more elucidation

Chris Manning writes in part:
 
>I would say that whether Bob's position is correct depends on how you  
define 
>'self-interest' and that on its broadest interpretation, it is  impossible 
>not to do something out of self-interest - because to say  that you are 
doing 
>it out of self-interest (on this broadest possible  interpretation) is a 
>tautology. It is impossible *not* to find something  about an action which 
>*could* be seen as being in the person's  self-interest.



Not quite on target. First of all, my position is not that all behavior  
arises out of self interest, but rather all conscious, motivated behavior.  

Obviously, we do many things without conscious thinking or with minimal thinking
out of habit or indoctrination. Equally obviously, some of those unthinking  
choices are counterproductive.
 
In a sense, choosing on the basis of self interest is a  tautology, true by 
definition. "Motivation" means what moves you, i.e. what  drives the choice, 

and what moves YOU is what YOU want, regardless of  the reason and regardless of
the outcome or of conflict with other goals. 
 
But saying it is a tautology does not vitiate its usefulness. Delusion,  such 
as the common delusion of altruism, is sometimes comfortable but always  
dangerous and sometimes fatal.
 
Once more, appealing to the "organic" character of groups or the  

psychological benefits of group loyalty  misses the point. It is not a  question
of what 
we want, but of what we ought to want, based on our best  estimate of the 
consequences of our actions on our future well being. 
 
No one denies that "fitting in" is usually important or that conformance  and 
magnanimity etc. tend to have their benefits, internal and  external. 

Relatively few people need to be told that it usually pays  to be nice. But 
almost 
everybody needs to be shown or reminded that evolution  and tradition can harm 
or kill us.
 
Robert Ettinger
 



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