X-Message-Number: 31209 From: Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 13:50:14 EST Subject: Thought provoking post by Julian Conrad re: "cranks" and ide... In a message dated 11/29/2008 5:00:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, writes: I wonder how odd the gurus and intellectual role models adopted by today's cryonicists will look in a century or two. I can see our revivers asking about the "Ludwig von-who? Ayn who? Robert who-lein? etc." that some of us talk a lot about, while the future society we'll find ourselves in had long ago solved today's problems with ideas owing little or nothing to the 20th century intellectuals who seem inordinately smart or insightful to some of us now. Consider that not that long ago forward-thinking people (the sort who would have written for the Edge.org website if the internet existed back then) viewed Marxism, General Semantics, eugenics and psychoanalysis as the cutting edge concepts in the progress of human understanding. Today we can see that these ideas suffer from serious problems, even though they still have proponents often called "cranks." Will many of today's cryonauts become tomorrow's cranks because we have trouble incorporating a future society's world view that conflicts with our current pseudo-explanations for the way the world works? Regards, Julian (End copying of Julian Conrad post, Rudi Hoffman writing follows:) I found this an exceptionally well written and thought provoking posting on cryonet. EXAMPLE OF PAUL KURTZ AND THE CFI WRITERS And, it is indeed worth noting that the intellectuals of previous decades, some of whom are still active, were active proponents of ideas and ideologies that are now substatiantially out of favor. For instance, I have been a subscriber for perhaps a dozen years to the magazines, "Free Inquiry" and "The Skeptical Inquirer" put out by what is now known as the "Center for Inquiry" based in Amhurst, NY. I also listen consistently (would one say "faithfully"?) to the tremendous podcast that CFI promulgates, hosted by D J Grothe, called, "Point of Inquiry." And, I read many of the outstanding books that the CFI publishing house promotes/publishes. These guys form much of my ideological and intellectual worldview. The point is that most of these skeptical/agnostic/atheists intellectuals writing for the above idea sources are self-acknowledged socialists currently...and twenty or thirty years ago were at the vanguard of intellectualism, which included a socialist, perhaps even communistic orientation. Paul Kurtz, who in his early eighties remains the very active head of CFI, remains a self avowed socialist. He writes, surprisingly compellingly, in his "Humanist Manifesto" (several iterations over the decades) that radical divisisions of wealth and power between humans needs to be "cured" by government redistribution and heavy taxation of the "haves" to the "have nots." Like a disproportionate percentage of cryonicists, I tend toward a freedom loving orientation loosely known as "libertarianism." And I am sometimes dismayed to find that the politics on both the transnational / national level as well as the local level of CFI activists is agressively left leaning. HERE'S HOW THIS RELATES TO "FUTURE CRANKS" POSTING The point of this posting is that I agree with Julian that we as a group and as individuals need to be aware of tendency to see reality through our own ideological biases. Perhaps some of you have had the experience of running into "kooks" or shall we say "crackpots, or cranks" within the realms of cryonics. (Don't say we all are...although some would! LOL) And, the reality of life has a way of showing that the certainties of one age may be discredited, or certainly superceded, by the realities and social constructs of a subsequent age. Which is a nice way of saying that the sophomoric understandings and certainties I held about life, and really important and foundational philisophical bedrocks I based my worldviews on while in college, turned out to be astonishingly naive, ignorant, and plain old fashioned wrong as gained insights later in life. Perhaps it may make all of us a bit wiser to consider how our understanding of all sorts of things may be correct, but incomplete. As I consider the brashness, the intellectual superiority and certainty, the plain old fashioned obnoxiousness of much of my early behavior, I am embarrassed. And, it makes me resolve to try to see things from alternate viewpoints...to talk and read others who come from ideological positions that are diametrically opposed to mine...to be less of a "crank" and more of a friend. To stop finding where people are "wrong" and "I am right" and looking for a synthesis of worldviews, a fabric of life woven with different textures and colors. So, perhaps when we are resuscitated in a world with an amazingly different value system, we will have practiced the art of thriving when our philisophical worldviews are deemed to be incomplete. Warm and Respectful Regards, Rudi Rudi Richard Hoffman CFP CLU ChFC Board Member Financial Planning Association fpafla.com Board Member Salvation Army salvationarmy.org Member Alcor Life Extension Foundation alcor.org Certified Financial Planner(TM) CFP Board of Standards Member Libertarian Party libertarianparty.org Member National Rifle Association nra.org Member World Transhumanist Association http://transhumanism.org/ World's Leading Cryonics Insurance Provider rudihoffman.com **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002) Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" [ AUTOMATICALLY SKIPPING HTML ENCODING! ] Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=31209