X-Message-Number: 31286
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 13:59:04 -0800
From: Gary Kline <>
Subject: Re: CryoNet #31281 - #31283
References: <>
> Message #31283
> Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 22:57:17 -0700
> From: "Finance Department" <>
> Subject: "Community" or Not = Semantics
>
> By some ordinary definitions, there can be many communities. As to
> cryonics, there could be the community of people who read CryoNet. That
> would not be much of a community though as they do not commune. There is,
> however, a community of people who post to CryoNet. They certainly do
> commune.
>
> Then we have the community of Alcor. That is not much of a community, since
> there is no medium for facilitating it, despite "Alcorunited.com" which also
> invites intruder outsiders and seems to get minimal attention from the
> larger Alcor membership.
>
> And there is the Cold Filter community, where I usually hang out, and it
> talks to itself about like CryoNet though in a different format and somewhat
> higher volume level. Cryonics Institute has its own community via their
> private Yahoo list, I am told, and we get brief snippets from there in their
> online published magazine.
>
> We have even gotten hints of a private "community" of Saul Kent Supporters
> who have nearly a blood relationship built to take care of each other in
> times of crisis. Most of them seem to maintain Alcor memberships but I
> cannot discern why. Ain't that fun.
>
> My point here being: there are various communities no matter whether you
> think they should be there or not. Is there a larger community of
> "cryonicists in general"? Well, I really think not. It hasn't gotten
> together like that yet, as I can see.
>
> I do think it would be advantageous to the "greater community of cryonicists
> in general and on an abstrsct level" for them all to sometime in the future
> come together and sit down and cooperate with each other on just about
> everything, instead of always thinking "competition drives progress". With
> cryonics, it seems to retard progress.
>
> I am not talking about the other semantic meaning of community, where there
> is a formalized organization complete with articles of incorporation,
> bylaws, meeting minutes etc etc. That was what Charles Platt obviously
> meant. I don't think that is needed either. It would certainly attract
> unwanted attention as Charles points out, from the larger world.
>
> But if Charles, with whom I occasionally have I hope friendly banter on Cold
> Filter, thinks no type of community at all is desirable, I just have to ask
> him who is going to be an advocate for him in the future for his cryonics
> needs then (and that could embody a wide spectrum of areas - legislation,
> medical practice, social paradigms)? Or vice versa, what would he be
> willing to be an advocate of for others? Perhaps any lack of concern on his
> part is due to his lack of perceiving his membership in "Saul Kent
> Supporters" as also being a member of a "community"?
>
The above is one thing my new essay deal with. It's almost ready for
publication on my transfinite site, yet may never see the light of
publication for several reasons.
First, tho we all know that if we are successfully suspended, there is
a solid chance of us being re-animated in a century or two. BUT
there are major differences in how each of us views the world. It's
only a difference of opinion ... but that is a large _only_ and would
make forming a much closer--closely-knit--community fragile.
For example, one thing I pose is that all of us find housing in the metro
Detroit area [[ close to Clinton Township ]] when we are fully-funded
and probably older and closer to death. Obviously, it is the first few
minutes following death that we need to have our brains chilled. And if
we live in Podunk, Iowa, say, the odds of having any communal member at
our beside is small. Also, if we lived in a community, close- or
loosely-knit, near the CI facility, there are fewer legal hassles and
transport woes.
From where I am at three score and three years, I probably have always to
go. Still, I have begun all the essentials. I have found a physician
here. I think he is Catholic, but says he'll do whatever he can to help
me. And I've drawn up my own will for now ... until I can find a
liberal-minded atty. [Thanks to Bob Ettinger for these and other
pointers.]
I have a practical question:: Let's say that my wife and I retire to
somewhere near Alcor. Is there any kind of community _there_ who would
volunteer to do the initial prep, ice me up and ship my to Michigan?
Another point in my article suggests that it would be a win if at least
there were a few/several places (globally) that might serve to help each
of us when we exit this life temporarily. If not, our exit will be not
eternal, or timeless, but infinite.
A last note is to add my dime's worth about cryonicists being considered
as 'nut cases'; that has not been my experience. Rather, people have had
very skeptical reactions. Something like, "Hey is _that_ works, I've
got a bridge to sell you... ." Occasionally less charitable: "Why can
you just accept things and death like we all have to?" It may be that
the folk I have mentioned my plan to are above average intellect or not
biased to any extreme. But I've never made a big deal or tried to keep
it hush-hush either. My reply has been: "I think it's worth a try."
Again: any "community" around Alcor?
thanks,
gary kline
--
Gary Kline http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix
http://jottings.thought.org http://transfinite.thought.org
The 2.17a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org/index.php
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