X-Message-Number: 3132
Date: 13 Sep 94 17:46:09 EDT
From: John de Rivaz <>
Subject: CRYONICS: Terra Libra Integrity

re Terra Libra:
--------------

After my postings about Terra Libra, following publicity for this
organisation in Venturist Monthly News, there were several other postings,
and direct emails claiming that Terra Libra and/or its founder were involved
in some business scams. I wrote him a letter asking about his previous
history, and this is his response:

(start of quote)
     Thanks for your letter of Aug 17th.  I don't know what "business
scams" your correspondents are referring to.  As you indicate, your
correspondents, "when pressed fail to elucidate what it is you are [I am]
supposed to have done."

     Precursors  Angeles CA at the same location as ltitute and Home
Fortune Systems. A great deal of experimenting and learning took place,
resulting eventually in the formulation of Terra Libra. It's possible that some
of the programs of Home Fortune Systems could be regarded as "business
scams."  If this is what your correspondents are referring to, they should say
so.

     In 1988 I tried to launch a company called Creative Trust Company.
This effort never got to the stage where anything was offered to the public.
Nor was any money ever collected from any investors. So I don't think this
qualifies as a "business scam." 

     In launching Terra Libra, we have sold quite a few products we
haven't completed yet. Originally we expected to complete these products
very quickly. However, Terra Libra just took off, we got overwhelmed with
orders and other traffic, and we've been unable to complete all the reports.
Meanwhile we've taken on additional personnel. A full-time computer
professional is joining us next week. A marketing person is joining us next
month.  The personnel additions will free up a great deal of my and Jim
Robertson's time and enable us to focus on completing the backlogged
products. 

     I think you need to demand that your correspondents specify
specifically what they mean by their "business scams." If they do so, I can
then address their accusations. If they fail to do so, what action will you
take? Will you publish their names and the fact that they make a general
accusation which they refuse to back up with specifics?

     We should also inquire into the possible sources and motives behind
such accusations. Possible sources could be former associates Eric Klien and
Chuck Geschleider. Terra Libra was launched soon after Project Atlantis  
Klien and Geschleider may have seen Terra Libra as a threat to their plans. 
An acquaintance told me that Geschleider had told him that "I didn't keep
my word." It's quite possible that the "business scam" accusation was spread
by Klien and Geschleider.

     There may also be other libertarians trying to discredit Terra Libra.
The Terra Libra approach to freedom can be perceived as threatening to
"helpless-victim slavetarians"   those who believe you have to beg for
freedom ... and beg for money so you can afford to beg for freedom!

PS You are welcome to publish this letter.
(end of quote)



I still believe that Terra Libra has a lot of offer the Life Extension, cryonics
and other immortalist movements. The Venturists had the courage to
circulate Terra Libra information. I call upon other immortalist organisations
to do the same. Anyone wanting an application form or more information
can email me on 

--------------------------------------------------

Re Yvan Bozzonetti's message 3105
---------------------------------

I would like to commend this message re funding and carrying out cryonics
research, and recommend that everyone on the Cryonet takes the trouble to
read it carefully and understand the underlying idea. The Cryonet and indeed
Internet and CompuServe as a whole should be excellent media to search for
and obtain information and leads in the manner proposed. If you haven't
read it or downloaded it, then send an email message to Cryonet with the
subject line CRYOMSG 3105 and it will come rushing back to you!

Mr Bozzonetti has been a contributor to Longevity Report and Fractal Report
(not immortalist - about producing fractal images and other off-beat
computer applications) for some years now, and has received many reader
commendations for his articles. His writing can also be found in The
Immortalist and elsewhere.

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