X-Message-Number: 31489 From: "John de Rivaz" <> Subject: publicity, organ transplants Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 11:52:47 -0000 Publicity etc. I may be getting confused here, but Dr Stodolsky did mention a large sum of money on the Venturists' list - maybe even more than the entire capitalisation of the existing cryonics organisations. "Development of a new model" suggests to me another way of saying "thinking up a new way to present cryonics". This sort of brain storming has been going on for decades within the movement, at meetings, in newsletters and laterly on the internet. I find it very hard to beleive that this can be bettered by giving large sums of money to professionals, however well qualified, to spend a few weeks or months on the job. The "amateurs" in the cryonics movement have **not** been motivated by a passion for fee income, but have been motivated by a passion for their subject and indeed a passion to survive. Many of them are highly intelligent and have, or had, professional carreers. The movement has already been in existance for about half a century, providing a wealth of experience. I would suspect that any proposals made by professionals new to the idea would have been tried before, or would have previously been declared impractical. Organ transplant industry I agree that this is an enormous industry. It has emerged over the last half century more or less in parallel with cryonics. Many of the current practises were considered suitable subjects for horror films 50 years ago or more, and many ethicists argued against them in the early days, particularly taking organs from live people. However trends could work against cryonics. If the pressure on individuals to donate, both at death and in life, increases this would not be good. I know we think this is murderous, as indeed it is, but the majority of people would see it otherwise. Fatal self sacrifice is a big part of civilisation, both in government inspired wars and small terrorist movements. Persuading others to scarifice themsleves is also big business, as can be seen at facilities ranging from government military acadamies down to terrorist training camps. One of the big arguments against cryonics is that the chances of the patient's body being a useful source of spare parts, and his assets being a useful source of funds, for others are more or less certain, whereas there is a question mark over cryonics being a useful treatment for the patient. I know that this could be extended to cover any surgical procedure - none are or could be guaranteed. But governments and health authorities have gone to enormous trouble to provide probability figures for common operations. It is impossible to provide a comparable figure for cryonics as it relies on future technology. With authority figures, such as coroners and hospital legal departments willing to kill (even if only in cryonics terms) specific individuals for a greater common good, this is a big negative for cryonics. However there is a ray of hope. That is that if it is possible to grow new organs for the individual needing them, then the transplant industry becomes totally different. No longer is there a need for one person to die so that another can live. But such technology could be decades away. -- Sincerely, John de Rivaz: http://John.deRivaz.com for websites including Cryonics Europe, Longevity Report, The Venturists, Porthtowan, Alec Harley Reeves - inventor, Arthur Bowker - potter, de Rivaz genealogy, Nomad .. and more ----- Original Message ----- From: CryoNet Message #31476 From: David Stodolsky <del>My proposal is not to spend lots of money on publicity, but to fund development of a new model for social organization and promotion, that once tested could be applied widely with very limited resources. The testing of this new model requires some funding for publicity, but word-of-mouth/viral advertising would be the main means of dissemination after development. In fact, I explicitly stated that money currently spent on publicity is wasted. <del> * * * From: <del> Organ transplant is a big business, a big service industry supported by a constantly advancing medical science. Sooner or later they will want to have viable frozen organs at their disposal. That is the ship which will probably bring us home within the next few years. <del> Content-Type: text/html; [ AUTOMATICALLY SKIPPING HTML ENCODING! ] Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=31489