X-Message-Number: 31745
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 05:48:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: un person <>
Subject: immortality, the universe, and christians


carrying on the conversation from cold filter:

yes, the universe is not affected by our decisions. But our futures are. If you 
or I assume that the universe will not allow immortality, we may very well then 
make  decision based on that assumption. If it turns that that the universe DOES
allow for immortality, then that will have been a faulty assumption, and our 
decisions based on that faulty assumption may FORECLOSE immortality for you or 
me. Restated, we may LOSE immortality because we made a decision based on a 
faulty assumption. Since possible immortality has the highest possible values of
all things possible, then we should assume that immortality may be possible and
make our future decisions based on that premise, so as not to lose possible 

previously, I wrote:

"And by doing so, we may save billions of lives, including our own. If we allow 
for the POSSIBILITY of immortality, then that also allows christians to 
integrate cryonics into their worldviews via the mechanisms that I discussed 
above in this thread." 

in reply, you wrote:

Why? Because their minds are made up. You were one of the rare ones who managed 
to escape the mind slavery and washing. There are not many like you, compared to
the millions of religious adherents. They aren't going to change their ideas of
going to heaven, to going to be reanimated from cryopreservation, any time 
soon, actually never. 

my reply is:

the only way that the vast majority of americans can deal with the idea of 
beating death is via the ideas in the bible, via the power of a deity. 

If we want to save their lives, and possibly obtain immortality for them via 
science, then we have to do it via the bible. That is the only way they can 
think about beating death--via supernatural means.

And if they believe in the bible, then to be a good christian, they must also be
good cryonicists. After all, their own bible does tell them that that those who
are followers of jesus will live forever on the land as their reward. Not in 
heaven, but on the land. 
The bible tells them that jesus is fighting a final battle, one against death. 

The bible tells them that jesus want them to go forth here on earth and raise 
the dead. 
The bible tells them that god helps those who help themselves.

The bible thus tells christians to be cryonicists and that in doing so they will
be serving jesus and their reward will be immortality.

We cryonicists are fighting a battle against death and trying to raise the dead.
And if we are successful, and if the universe allows immortality, then we will 
de facto fulfill the biblical prophecy and we will have been acting as jesus 
wanted us to act. 

And we will be immortal, through science, yes. IF the universe does allow for 

But god helps those who help themselves. That is the bible talking. So if we are
made immortal via science, then who is to say that it was not the work of a 

Now, we do not know if the universe will allow immortality via science. We do 
not yet understand enough about the universe to say whether that is possible. We
don't really know the full nature of the universe itself. We should not be 
hubristic and arrogant and prideful and assume that we yet have the knowledge to
fully understand all that the universe is. We are as babes in the woods when it
comes to understanding what the universe really is.

Thus we should allow for the possibility of immortality via science.

And if we do allow that immortality may yet be possible--via science--then if we
do not use the bible to reach out to christians, and convince them to be 
cryonicists, then we are condemning them to death--if immortality via science 
turns out to be possible. Again, that is still up in the air, undecided.

Also, by not reaching out to christians via the bible, we are possibly 
condemning ourselves to death as well. You see, cryonics will probably not make 
it unless we can go mainstream at some point in the near future. Thrive or die.

We can thrive by using the bible to reach the christian majority.


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