X-Message-Number: 3176 From: (Thomas Donaldson) Subject: CRYONICS: re several messages Date: Sat, 24 Sep 1994 11:22:19 -0700 (PDT) Hi again! To Brian Wowk: It's perfectly clear to me why he wanted to give these ideas a Christian slant($$). Not that this says much for his clarity of mind or honesty of ideas, unfortunately. I will also mention that in his former book, ideas such as this were all stated as "Hypotheses" rather than truth.... and he and Barrow went through a series of stronger and stronger hypotheses, with this one being the strongest. There was a short review of Tipler's book by Ellis in the 8 September issue of NATURE. Basically Ellis pointed out that the logical problems of Tipler's argument lay in the leap from the Omega Point to the identification of this phenomenon with the Christian God. Personally I think all such cosmological ideas should be approached with a sense of play and speculation. The history of our ideas about cosmology and the ultimate end of the Universe has shown that none of these ideas lasts more than a very tiny fraction of the lifespan of the Universe before they are shown to be utterly and finally false. To found a theology on such soap-bubbles does not look to me to be a rational exercise. To Mr. Coetzee: I will be interested to see your book when you finish it. However you should know that the temperature at which the Iceman, and the mammoths, and the ox, were preserved is nowhere near low enough to match those used in cryonics. This will remain true even if we decide to (and learn how to) use vitrification. Here is a question for YOU. (I might be able to find out on my own, but if you already know that's less work). Has anyone tried to look at the DNA of the frozen ANIMALS? There was a study of the DNA of the Iceman, which showed that he was "Italian" ie. lived in the area we now call Italy. Such a study would tell us, for instance, just how close the mammoths were to modern elephants. To Paul Wakfer (re previous message): Thanks for the compliment. I will let Kevin decide whether it belongs in CRYONICS.SCI. Long long life, Thomas Donaldson Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=3176