X-Message-Number: 32073 Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 14:23:14 +0000 (UTC) From: Melody%20Maxim <> Subject: Many thanks for the open discussion! Many thanks to Tripper McCarthy, Mike Perry, and Keith Henson, for their willingness to engage in open discussion. Even greater thanks to Kitty Antonik Wakfer for her post, regarding the attempts of others to prevent my posts from appearing in the Cryonet emails. Everyone is intelligent enough to realize the people rating my posts as "flamebait" are probably the same people who have previously responded to my criticisms with blatant lies, (many which had to be retracted and apologized for, because I could prove they were lies), and personal attacks. Resorting to these tactics seems to indicate these people must feel they have no legitimate responses to my criticims. All of you should be concerned about such activities, as they will cause more harm than good, to the cryonics industry. At the very least, these people are like children, sticking their fingers in their ears and screaming at the tops of their lungs, so they don't have to hear what they don't want to hear. At worst, they are people who are attempting to cover up issues that should be addressed, not ignored and continued to the point of leaving cryonics as a subject of ridicule, and constantly under the threat of being banned, for another three, or four, decades. Some of the objections to my criticisms are quite valid. Sometimes I am just plain wrong, but at other times I am playing "devil's advocate." If we want the science of cryonics to have an opportunity to advance, the people in leadership positions need to think about how the industry appears to the general population and, ESPECIALLY, to medical professionals who might be willing to work in cryonics, if it were not for all the ethical issues, the fairly-constant low level of professionalism, and the resulting negative publicity. Keith Henson can give me logical arguments about dumping biohazardous wastes down the sewer, but a blatant disregard for OSHA violations is a sure way to cause serious trouble for an organization. Also, the point I was trying to make, with the ball peen hammer was that Alcor should have simply stated that it didn't matter if they used such an instrument. They shouldn't have tried to pass it off as something it wasn't, because doing so makes them look dishonest. The logical answer would have been that it's silly to worry about infection, for someone who needs technology to advance to the point where he can have a new body! Of course, in the eyes of the public, that still brings Alcor back to having seemingly very unqualified people performing decapitations, with tools from Sears. Unhfortunately, I think that's a pretty accurate portrayal, but much more importantly, I see no reason for the situation to remain that way. Cryonicists need to acknowledge that they are only a few thousand strong, (actually, if we count only the people making decisions for the industry, that would be, "only a few DOZEN strong"), and realize they need to behave in a manner that will be more acceptable to the general population, which includes many thousands of medical professionals who have participated in hypothermic arrest cases, and who would be appalled, at most of the cryonics case reports I have ever read. Keith's argument regarding the low number of cases is invalid, in my opinion. There are tens of thousands of people who know how to competently perform vascular cannulations and perfusion, and I don't believe it would be as difficult to find qualified personnel, as many "cryonics experts" would have the community continue to believe. Keith should consider that there might have been a greatly increased number of cases, a long time ago, if it were not for some extremely unprofessional behavior, and a total failure to competently provide hypothermic procedures that have been well-established, in conventional medicine, for many decades. One critical mistake is thinking the organizations will EVER be able to train amateurs to competently perform vascular cannulations and perfusion, with the low number of cases, especially when there is no reason for them to be training amateurs, in the first place. I will write a lot more on this topic, very soon, both here and on my blog. I would like to take my time and give some thoughtful answers to all the questions that have been raised, but for now, I am going to try to set cryonics aside, briefly, and enjoy the weekend. (If I don't, my family may disown me!) Thanks again, for the encouragement of a few open minds, and please try to convince the moderator to improve the ratings system. I think Kitty's suggestion of identifying the people who provide ratings is a good one. Sincerely, Melody Maxim Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=32073