X-Message-Number: 32144 From: Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2009 13:25:17 EST Subject: Re: CryoNet #32141 - #32143 Regarding organ transplants, I think they want organs from young healthy people brain-dead from accidents, and really cannot use organs that might have cancer cells or come from sick elderly people. Since most cryonics patients are old, and/or very sick when they die, very very few would qualify as donors anyway. Frankly, I imagine that when you die of natural causes -- cancer, heart failure, diabetes or the like -- all your organs are dead or dying too, and not at all suitable or desirable for transplants. Thus I doubt that the donor establishment resents us, at least when they give it a minute's thought. Maybe someone could ask, but this is my understanding. Alan Mole Message #32141 From: "John de Rivaz" <> References: <> Subject: Re: Cryonics and organ transplants Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 10:46:10 -0000 Thanks, Steve, for giving all the details of why cryonics and organ transplants cannot be combined. I do however see the organ transplant industry as being the greatest opponent of cryonics compared to others that are often suggested. If you consider the facts, religion and cryonics are actually on the same side - cryonics doesn't offer infinite life, merely life of indefinite duration. Religion tells is followers to respect their own life and that of others, (although a few of its adherents seem to lose this point at times.) Law may seem hostile at times, but in fact it is totally neutral. It is just a system for gathering money and treats all "customers" alike as long as they can pay. The only difference between it and other businesses is the degree of cooercion involved. But the transplant industry and cryonics are competing for the same resource. At the moment, cryonics is not a significant consumer of the transplant industry's resources. But if 30% of the population ever did decide to be cryopreserved, then it could be seen differently. I feel confident that this fear is behind utterances such as "hamburger to cow". They are propaganda, not logical arguments, to stop a war that the transplant industry would probably lose, ever starting. Of course within decades rather than centuries harvesting organs for transplant will not be necessary or desireable. Instead they will be grown from the patients' own cells. Once this happens, cryonics will seem more credible and will lose its real opponent. But maybe it will seldom be necessary for those living at the time. -- Sincerely, John de Rivaz: http://John.deRivaz.com for websites including Cryonics Europe, Longevity Report, The Venturists, Porthtowan, Alec Harley Reeves - inventor, Arthur Bowker - potter, de Rivaz genealogy, Nomad .. and more Message #32140 Subject: Cryonics and organ transplants Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 22:49:01 -0500 From: OK, I don't usually jump in on these discussions, but I can see the enthusiasm building for what might sound like a reasonable idea. Before you all waste many hours of your lives trying to persuade Alcor to donate the organs of neuropatients, let me dump some ice water reality on you. <del> Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=32141 Message #32142 Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 07:39:57 -0800 (PST) From: Luke Parrish <> Subject: Re: Cryonics and organ transplants I'd just like to point out (from an idealist's standpoint) that if cryonics had become the world standard (or even just the civilized world's standard) back when it first came out, for preserving the clinically dead, these problems would long since have been solved and *nobody* would be suffering from a lack of organ donation. So again, it is selfish of people not to sign up for and/or support cryonics. If the bulk of the population supported cryonics, donated organ availability would skyrocket because it would be economically justifiable to overcome these hurdles. The incredibly small size of the current cryonics "industry" is the root of the problem. From a realist's standpoint, cryonics won't be a source of organ donation for many years, and cloned organs will most likely be available before that happens. The exception would be if cryonics suddenly catches on very popularly, in which case I expect it to be regularly performed directly in hospitals by specialists in vascular medicine. Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" [ AUTOMATICALLY SKIPPING HTML ENCODING! ] Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=32144