X-Message-Number: 32188
References: <>
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 03:33:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Shannon <>
Subject: Response to Ettinger


As always I appreciate the discussions here on cryonet. I often read and do not 
post--but I wanted to take a moment to agree with Robert's take (by the way if 
you've not read Youniverse it is a great time to order it for Christmas :-) ) 
(or also if you have kids you'd like to send or give "21st Century Kids" to here
is the link ;-) : 
http://www.amazon.com/21st-Century-Kids-Shannon-Vyff/dp/1886057001 ) (Anyone 
wanting 21st Century Kids that lives in UK, contact me directly as I have some 
copies and you can save on shipping)

But-about cryonicists' general outlooks (which run the gamut from no belief, 
belief in a slight chance, to 100% assuredness) with my own three children I've 
always had the "its possible so its worth trying" outlook. Recently I've played 
the following song as a "cryonics" song: Ocean Breathes Salty 

The song can be interpreted different ways (an understatement), and it is about 
death (afterlife, guilt, loss, responsibilities in life)--but I like the line,

"And maybe we'll get lucky and we'll both live again. 
Well I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Don't think so." 

To my family at least cryonics is just a chance--one of my children is more of a
believer than the other two interestingly enough. My husband and I are of the 
"slight chance" and "probably not" variety.  That said, I enjoy supporting the 
movement for the advances it gives to science now, and to be in the experimental
group in case I, my friends or family get to see the far future and get to work
on what I see as best living then--currently for me that means being able to 
donate to non-profits, volunteer, teach and devote time to my family. 

 It will be interesting for me to see if any of my children keep the tradition 
 of being cryonicists after they start their own adult lives.  For now I have 
 gratitude for all those who work at the cryonics organizations, those involved 
 in research of better organ & and subsequently patient preservation, and those 
 who do advocacy of cryonics.  The movement is young, is growing and is being 
 bettered in many areas-by the hard work of its members.  

Happy Holidays All :-)
Shannon Vyff, Calveley, Pudsey, Leeds West Yorkshire, UK

Message #32187
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 11:38:26 EST
Subject: response to Mark Plus

Mark Plus, if I read his post today (Monday) correctly, has 
some things right and some wrong, all old stuff.

First, he says that uploading is not survival. I agree, and
I believe I have proven this in my book Youniverse
(latest version 2009, available from Amazon, Barnes
and Noble, and Universal Publishers).

Second, he seems to say that the probability of success
for cryonics patients is very low. I disagree, and my
reasoning is spelled out in an essay that is available
on the CI web site, cryonics.org. Some of this is
too technical for most readers, but an ordinary
person of reasonable intelligence will find the
essence accessible.

Third, he seems to say that cryonicists are overly
optimistic. I don't think there are any relevant
statistics available, but my impression is
different. I think the typical member of CI
regards the chance as unknown and perhaps
small, but still worth while because of the
enormous payoff of success.

Robert Ettinger 

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