X-Message-Number: 32243 Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:44:06 -0500 Subject: Perhaps off topic, response to Coyne book review From: Rudi Hoffman <> --0015174bdbeef14361047b523cb6 Hello, fellow cryonetters and lurkers, Thank you, Steve Bridge, for the interesting review of J. Coyne's book. I am reading a not dissimilar book by Richard Dawkins, "The Greatest Show on Earth: The Evidence for Evolution." Dawkins makes reference to Jerry Coyne somewhat extensively throughout the book...and Coyne says of the book on the back book jacket "...This important and timely book is a must-read for Darwin year." I have been a fan of Dawkins for many years, as he is perhaps the most influential thinker expounding the rationalist, atheist, skeptic position, probably in the world right now. Like many reading this, I am also enthusiastic about Dawkin's colleagues Sam Harris, Daniel Dennet, and Christopher Hitchins. Harris is especially profound, clear, and a delight to read. Even for those of us a skeptic persuasion, "The End of Faith" and "Letter to a Christian Nation" were, for lack of better accolades, life changing. I am proud to support his "Reason Foundation" with a monthly contribution. Dawkin's clear thinking and profound book, "The God Delusion" was terrific...making explicit what many of us have suspected all along. That is, that religion is delusional thinking, calcified into society. When one person talks to invisible friends, and makes claims clearly at odds with objective reality, he is rightfully identified as delusional, insane, perhaps dangerous. When a large group of people do the exact same behavior, under the shield of religion, we not only honor them, take them seriously, and provide reverence for their leaders. We go even further and protect their claims and beliefs from rational and critical discourse! This is why discussions of religion, and comparative belief systems, SHOULD be in the public square. Freedom of belief and freedom of religion should not be confused with freedom from discussion or critical thinking because insanity is hiding behind the curtain of religion. BTW, I recently went to an "in person" debate between Dinesh D'Souza and Christopher Hitchens. Quite remarkably, the venue was a large stadium. Packed, every seat filled. As near as I could tell, about 70% of the audience was there in church groups to cheer on D'Souza. Who, surprisingly, was better than I expected at defending the Christian doctrine/beliefs. (I have read his writing, which is pretty high on the annoyance scale.) The churchgoers, almost universally better dressed, and, darn it, plain old fashioned better looking than most of us "heathen" were quite impressed. In the two rather distinct lines for booksigning after the event, some of my male linemates were observing that the Christian oriented line simply had foxier ladies. Excuse this bit of shallow superficiality, but they were right. But Hitch got his points across, to enthusiastic cheering. The reality is probably that reasoned discourse and nuanced conversations are generally better done in print. I was pleased when, during the question session, someone had penned the question to D'Souza, "Why does god hate amputees? People claim healing prayers are answered in the affirmative by the thousands on internal problems that can't be clearly seen. The Bible clearly states that "what you ask, believing, you will receive." So, given the thousands of amputees who have been prayed for, where we can all clearly SEE what is truly happening, why does god only heal those with INTERNAL problems which are less distinct in their expression? Why does god discriminate and hate amputees?" D'Souza's answer, after an extended pause, was to the effect that "amputees often have quality lives, and happiness set points, that rebound...and that god is allowing them to learn compassion. Blah, blah, blah..." Lame and non-responsive, but it thrilled the masses. These guys were treated like rock stars. Like hundreds of others, I lined up after the event to get my books signed by Hitchens. I will probably be excoriated by some for bringing religion into discussion on Cryonet...but, at least my topic heading warned of off topic content. Gotta go to work, underwriting and administrative challenges abound. I shouldn't have allowed myself the time for this posting, but wanted to add some perhaps interesting comments to cryonet. Reason's Greetings to all, Rudi -- Rudi Richard Hoffman CFP CLU ChFC World's Leading Cryonics Insuror rudihoffman.com Former Board Member Financial Planning Association fpafla.com Board Member Salvation Army salvationarmy.org Member Alcor Life Extension Foundation alcor.org, Member Cryonics Institute cryonics.org Certified Financial Planner(TM) CFP Board of Standards Member World Transhumanist Association http://transhumanism.org/ --0015174bdbeef14361047b523cb6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 [ AUTOMATICALLY SKIPPING HTML ENCODING! ] Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=32243