X-Message-Number: 3233
Date: 10 Oct 94 00:59:26 EDT
From: David S Pizer <>
Subject: CRYONICS

Uncovering History
By: Dave Pizer

First this note:  Although I don't always agree with David Codenza I do
feel that his opinions are his own.  I don't think a good way to try to
defeat him is to continue to call him names, or assert that Carlos is
talking through David.  Those people who want to defeat David in a
debate should attack his statements, not him.  I know both David and
Carlos, and I feel that at least some of the statements that David
posts are not the beliefs held by Carlos.  I have even heard David
talking on several occassions when Carlos was either out of town or
taking a drink of water.

As far as the job of trying to uncover history, I feel I must agree with
Charles Platt to some degree on this.  Like Charles, I also have
personally intervied Nelson at his home.  I also have reviewed some of
the records and I believe that Mr. Nelson and Mr. Kent both went out of
the cryonics business for the same reason, lack of relatives desire or
ability to keep paying the storage costs of their loved ones.

It might appear that when Mr. Kent could see that he was going to have
to close down, (perhaps for reasons beyond his control - perhaps not-
who knows?)  he relieved himself of some of his patients (perhaps under
honorable circumstances -- who knows?).  I have found out that Mr. Kent
turned some of his patients over to Mr. Nelson; I don't know why.  

To some, Mr. Nelson might be viewed as a hero for taking patients from
Mr. Kent and trying to keep them frozen -- Mr. Nelson sees himself that
way.  

To others, Mr. Nelson may be viewed as a rouge who got in trouble.  I
know that the Chamberlains view him as a rouge.

The problem in trying to determine what really happened is compounded by
the fact that Mr. Kent refuses to discuss any of the events that
occured when he was helping run CSNY and CryoSpan, so we don't have the
facts.

Mr. Nelson, on the other hand, is willing to discuss his side of the
story but we don't know if he is telling the truth, so we don't know
the facts there, either.

Why is it important to know what went on back in those days?

There are a couple of reasons:  What is that damn quote? "Those who
don't know/remember the mistakes of history are likely to repeat those
mistakes again and go out of business again"  or something like that.

One thing to the credit of Mike Darwin is that when he was helping to
form the early policy of Alcor, (after Mr. Kent and Mr. Nelson went out
of business) is that Mike insisted that Alcor only take patients who
had paid in full, in advance.

I can't tell you how surprized I was to hear that CryoCare was going to
take patients and allow the relatives to make payments like in the old
days.  It appears that both Mr. Kent and Mr. Nelson are said to have
claimed that this is the reason they both went our of business.

 
Another thing that intrigues me is how Mr. Metzger, who I belive is an
intelligent man, can say that he is "damned certain" about why Mr. Kent
went out of business and then in the same posting say that he barely
knows Mr. Kent. It appears that Mr. Metzger is assuming to know the
facts about Mr. Kent's history only because Mr. Metzger does not trust
David Codenza and is willing to assume anything that is opposite to
what Codenza says.

I don't know him, but I will give Perry Metzger the benefit of the
doubt because most of my friends trust his judgement, but I would ask
Perry how he "knows" the reasons Mr. Kent went out of business and Mr.
Nelson went out of business, or is he just guessing.  I honestly do not
ask this in a manner to hurt anyone (although some people will probably
make that false assumption) but because I want to know what happened
back then.  Soon, I will be helpless in one of those damn tanks (like
the rest of you) and I want to know what happened NOW so I can see if I
can make any changes to the way we do cryonics to improve my chances of
not getting thawed out like all those other people did.

The bottom line is that all I really "know" is that both Mr. Nelson and
Mr. Kent both closed up. 

I don't know why. 

Does anyone?

Dave Pizer

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