X-Message-Number: 3259
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 02:23:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Charles Platt <>
Subject: CRYONICS:Miscellaneous


As briefly as possible: 
 
Dave Pizer writes: 
 
> Charles, I am sorry, but I never received Mike Darwin's posting 
> #1627 about the history of CSNY patients you referred to.  
 
Excuse me for not believing you, Dave, but Mike's original post was dated:
 
> Cryomessage #1627
> Date: 16 Jan 93 20:10:08 EST
 
*One week later*, Dave, you posted a message dated: 
 
> Date: 23 Jan 93 21:18:58 EST 
> From: David S Pizer <> 
 
And in that message you wrote:
 
>  am not making most of the accusations Mike and others have accused me
> of (through alledged inuendo). 
 
Obviously you did see Mike's "accusations." Otherwise, you couldn't have
referred back to them at the time. As I said before, you are fully informed 
about the subject which you pretend, now, to know nothing about. 

In that same letter (23 Jan 93) you also wrote: 
 
> As I told you earlier, I am trying to get off the net as my 
> new distributing business in Arizona is starting to take off 
> and I find some of the discussions on the net so gripping 
> they are hard not to respond to and I just don't have the 
> time anymore. 
 
Oh really? But you claim, now, that you left CryoNet because someone "hurt
your feelings"! Give me a break, Dave! If you're going to fabricate a
story, at least make it plausible. This is ridiculous.
 
> I am sorry, but I have never been sent any of the 
> information on CryoSpan or CryoCare or any of your other 
> organizations. 
 
The literature has been reproduced here on CryoNet and is in the hands of
other people at Alcor. I do believe that you have seen it. 
 
> You said I could find out about what really happend when 
> Saul went out of business by making one phone call (you said 
> it would take one hour).  Who is it and what is the number I 
> can call to get this information? 
 
As you know perfectly well, Curtis Henderson was the co-founder of CSNY
and you have his phone number. In your message dated 23 Jan 1993, you
referred at great length to communications you had already had with Curtis
Henderson, on this very same topic! How many times does he need to tell
you what happened? How many times can you pretend you don't know anything
about it? 
 
> You were going to write a book or article on this, then you 
> changed your mind.  You interviewed Saul on this subject, if 
> you really want the truth to come out on this, why don't you 
> just post the information he gave you and let's get on with 
> it. 
 
The truth on this topic is already public knowledge. You and Cosenza are 
the only people who try to pretend it's a big dark secret.

Re my book on cryonics, I wrote a portion and outline but could not find a
publisher at that time. I have about 20 hours of untranscribed taped
interviews with Curtis Henderson, and 10 hours with Saul Kent. Some of
this material relates to CSNY, but it doesn't tell us anything new. I'm
certainly not going to transcribe it for you, because your actions have 
now demonstrated beyond any possible doubt that you have no genuine 
interest in learning anything on this subject.

-----
  
Steve Bridge writes:
 
> Actually, Dr. Bedford is not a charity case.
 
Okay, I should have said he WAS a charity case at the time he was accepted
by Alcor. As for the other two cases cited by Steve, I regret I didn't
have the precise financial details, but my point is unchanged: Alcor has
accepted underfunded or zero-funded patients, wittingly or unwittingly. I
already said that if I had been in the same situation, I might have done
the same. Why labor the point, Steve?
 
Steve quotes passages from a letter from CryoSpan CEO Brenda Peters in
which she uses the word "we," which Steve seems to feel implies
"ownership" of equipment at BioPreservation. I think this is a point which
only a one-time librarian might make much of, but I'll deal with it
anyway. Steve, when I talk about "my" doctor or "my" hospital, I don't
mean I own them, I mean I have an ongoing relationship with them. The
situation here is no different (though Brenda's phrasing was a little
looser than the phrasing in our formal literature, which I *know* you have
read). "Our" cryopreservation provider is currently BioPreservation, a
company run by Mike Darwin. In future, we hope to have contracts with
additional cryopreservation providers. At that time we will be able to
say, "Our cryopreservation providers are as follows...." 
 
Steve continues: 
 
> Since the American Cryonics Society also contracts with 
> Biopreservation and CryoCare on more or less the same basis 
> as CryoCare, does this mean ACS can also talk about *their* 
> "hundreds of thousands of dollars of medical equipment" and 
> *their* "Transport Team?" 
 
John Doe at ACS might very well say, "Our suspension team is run by Mike
Darwin." And he might say, "My insurance agent is Fred Smith at New York
Life." Only a very perverse person would then assume that John Doe owns
Mike Darwin's equipment and Fred's office furniture. Again and again, we
have gone out of our way to emphasize the separation of CryoCare,
BioPreservation, and CryoSpan. In fact, the letter you quote may be the
only piece out of all our literature which could possibly be
misinterpreted. Thanks for dealing with us so fairly, Steve. 
 
> Is it CryoCare's intent to pretend to be an "unbundled" 
> organization, while all cuddled up in the same bed together 
> with its service providers? 
 
What on earth do you mean, "in the same bed together"? How can you write 
such a thing immediately after chastising US for sloppy terminology? 

As you mentioned in your own post, Mike serves two competing groups: us,
and ACS. If Mike showed us any special treatment, ACS wouldn't tolerate
it. (Yes, this is another positive side-effect of unbundled services.) In
fact, Mike has gone out of his way to be even-handed in his dealings with
us and with ACS. (I suspect that his contract with ACS gives them slightly
more favorable terms than us in some ways, but I don't know for sure,
because--quite rightly--Mike regards this as a private matter.) The most
you could claim is that some funding for the facility used by
BioPreservation, and a small amount of start-up funding for us, came from
the same philanthropist. But CryoCare has no office in the building used
by BioPreservation, has no officers or directors who work for
BioPreservation (or vice versa), has no financial entanglements with
BioPreservation, and does not attempt to influence the policy of
BioPreservation (or vice versa). Either explain exactly what you mean,
Steve, or please retract your statement. 

Overall, Steve, I can't help feeling that someone asked you to step in and
help poor Mr. Pizer, who had found himself in some difficulties here
(again), having made a few major errors of fact. I have a mental image of
you standing shoulder to shoulder with the two Dreadful Daves. It's not a
very pretty picture. 

############################################################
Charles Platt, 1133 Broadway (room 1214), New York, NY 10010
      Voice: 212 929 3983      Fax: 212 929 4467

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