X-Message-Number: 32689 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 01:43:50 +0000 (UTC) From: Melody Maxim <> Subject: Response to Steve Harris Message 32685 X-Message-Number: 32685 From: "sbharris1" < > References: < > Subject: Re: CryoNet #32684 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 17:40:50 -0700 STEVE HARRIS: >>Cannulation in medicine for femoral bypass is done on patients with a good blood pressure, and this is true even if the patient is intended to be cooled later. That means the arteries are pulsatile and pinkish white, the veins properly blue and fat with pressure, and everything looks like an anatomy diagram."<< MY RESPONSE: Does Harris really believe femoral cannulations, in conventional medicine, are always performed on patients with "good blood pressure"? If so, he needs to think again. Patients with "a good blood pressure" are usually cannulated via the right atrium and aorta. Femoral cannulations are usually reserved for urgent cases (such as patients undergoing cardiac arrest, who have little-to-no pressure), or other special cases (such as "re-do's"). Many times, I've seen patients who were either brought to the cath lab already in cardiac arrest, or who suffered cardiac arrest while undergoing procedures in the cath lab. I've witnessed these patients undergo femoral cannulation, so they could be placed on a CPS device, (a portable perfusion circuit). The professionals who performed those cannulations, (on patients with little-to-no blood pressure), performed them skillfully and within minutes, unlike SA's Catherine Baldwin, who recently hacked away on CI-95, for hours, without being able to accomplish any type of cannulation. (Luckily, a funeral director came along, and did it for her.) If Harris had to testify in a courtroom, or in front of a regulatory agency, medical experts would dismiss his claims that vascular surgeons would not be able to locate the femoral artery and vein, more easily than anyone currently working in cryonics, (even in a cadaver). STEVE HARRIS: >>In cryonics, femoral cannulations are considerably more difficult...In such circumstances it's surprisingly hard to tell veins from arteries. I think most surgeons would be shocked, but I doubt that many vascular surgeons have ever tried it...<< MY RESPONSE: Is Harris' argument that, because femoral cannulations on patients with no blood pressure are "considerably more difficult," they should be performed by laymen who have received minimal training on pigs and/or dogs, (and maybe a few cryonics cases), rather than by competent medical professionals who have competently performed hundreds, or maybe thousands, of vascular cannulations? That's ridiculous. Harris may have trouble telling veins from arteries, but most vascular surgeons, (and other professionals, who may assist them, such as physician assistants), would not, even under the worst circumstances. Most vascular surgeons started with dissecting out the femoral vessels of cadavers, in med school, and cardiovascular surgeons are likely to have many experiences cannulating patients with little-to-no blood pressure, over the course of their careers. It's beyond ridiculous for the leaders of cryonics organizations to keep defending sending unqualified persons to perform critical medical procedures. The three people Platt sent to the June 2007 ( CI-81) case, (something I wrote about, in the post Harris is responding to), were not only totally lacking in medical training or experience, they had no cryonics experience, and as far as I could tell none of them had any real interest in cryonics, other than their paychecks. If it had not been for medical professionals leaving IV lines in place, they would not have been able to even administer their medications, and if it were not for a helpful funeral director, they would not have been able to perform their washout procedure, (something I believe would have been a GOOD thing, since SA's case report and addendum strongly indicate CI-81 (a stroke victim) was subjected to inappropriate perfusion pressures). Again, I ask, with Kent and Platt's combined 47+ years of cryonics efforts, (and the input of numerous "experts," like Harris), was that the best they could do?? I'm not going to take the time to dissect and refute the rest of Harris' post, line by line, but I think it's important to examine Harris' possible motivations for defending Suspended Animation, and to endorse laypersons performing medical procedures. We can't be sure who is working with Harris, at CCR, since they don't maintain a website, or keep the cryonics community informed about their activities. When I was working at SA, (where CCR was jokingly referred to as the "Critical Care Relatives"), I was told their four staff members were Steve Harris, his wife, his mother-in-law, and the mother-in-law's significant other. According to LEF's Form 990's, Critical Care Rearch (CCR) received $984,500 in 2008; $840,000 in 2007; $770,000 in 2006; $700,000 in 2005; $911,500 in 2004; $569,917 in 2003; and $770,000 in 2002. That's a total in excess of $5.5M, over the course of seven years, and I think it would be safe to assume at least half of that went toward the salaries (along with associated taxes and benefits), of CCR's staff. I haven't seen anything very impressive come out of CCR, considering the time and money that has been invested, there, and I have concerns, regarding their dog experiments. (See links, below.) When I first started criticizing certain cryonics activities, (specifically those at SA, where I had been an employee), Steve Harris, (who didn't even know me), posted numerous blatant lies about me, and my work at SA, (which he had no firsthand knowledge of), on the Internet. (Both SA and CCR are funded by LEF.) When I asked him to apologize, he responded with, "So, sue me, baby." He didn't apologize, but Charles Platt who was working with him at the time, (and who was the obvious source of the lies posted by Harris), did. Approximately two years later, after the Johnson book was published, and Alcor needed to appear in a more positive light, Harris did issue an apology, claiming he thought he had already done so. In his apology, he stated he wanted to know the truth about the secondhand lies he had posted, so I offered to enlighten him, if he would email me, privately. He never bothered to contact me, so I tend to think his apology was insincere, especially considering the timing. According to former Riverside County Coroner's Investigator, Alan Kunzman, Steve Harris is a physician who signed multiple copies of a death certificate for Dora Kent, which falsely stated she died in a residence, when she died at an Alcor facility, in an industrial park. Kunzman maintains that Harris admitted to knowing the documents he signed were inaccurate, and only defended himself by claiming he didn't bother to read the documents, stating he had just signed what he was asked to sign, (presumably by someone associated with Alcor). Harris, and others, have claimed the 200mg dose of propofol, in Alcor and SA's medications protocols, is for the purpose of "keeping people dead." 200mg of propofol isn't enough to keep an average-sized person unconscious, for more than a few minutes, much less dead. When I pointed this out, Harris publicly recommended SA and Alcor include an additional dose of propofol, to administer to people undergoing stabilization procedures who showed "signs of awareness." Signs of awareness are signs of life, and I believe that administering a dose of propofol to such a person, and then continuing to cool them to a point, where they will stay dead, probably meets the definition of an illegal euthanasia. It was extremely foolish of Steve Harris, (Alcor's Chief Medical Advisor), to make such a recommendation, especially given past accusations, made against Alcor. It's also inappropriate for Harris to be willing to place such a drug in the hands of laypersons who, (as far as he knows), could have issues with substance abuse, or be engaged in criminal activities. Most medical professionals working in hospitals would never be allowed to have access to propofol, yet Harris doesn't seem to have any qualms about making it available to laypersons he knows little-to-nothing about. STEVE HARRIS: >>Nobody could afford (medical professionals for cryonics standby, stabilization and transport), even if they could find three surgeons willing to travel for a week at a moment's notice, and then sit at some hotel doing shiftwork someplace else. SA has had exactly that problem. It remains unsolved; for the money available, it may continue to remain at least partly unsolvable.<< That's absurd. No one needs to send three surgeons to a cryonics stabilization procedure; they only need one person capable of competently performing a cannulation, one person capable of safely performing perfusion, and a couple assistants. Out of the thousands of competent medical professionals capable of performing vascular cannulations, I'm sure there are people who would love to have one of those LEF-funded salaries and benefits packages, and who wouldn't mind living in sunny Florida, (especially considering they would probably only get called out for a few cases a year). CCR's budget, alone, would be able to support the competent professionals I've been suggesting. Combine that with SA's budget, and cryonics organizations could have quite a few competent care providers, (maybe two working full-time, (taking on administrative duties), and quite a few "semi-retirees" on call). I think Harris, and some of his peers, have a vested interest in making sure most of the people they advise are laymen, (people who won't know to object to any of the equipment, protocols, or research projects). Without a doubt, he and some of his peers have played roles in establishing the poor public image of cryonics. Please see the links, below. Melody Maxim Some of Steve Harris' Internet posts: http://cryomedical.blogspot.com/2008/03/sas-new-director.html Steve Harris on use of propofol: http://cryomedical.blogspot.com/2010/03/steve-harris-md-drops-bombshell-on-cold.html CCR's dog experiments: http://cryomedical.blogspot.com/2009/03/critical-care-research-incs-ccrs-dogs.html CCR's lack of progress in liquid ventilation: http://cryomedical.blogspot.com/2007/12/progress-or-empty-promises.html Harris et. al.'s sloppy patent work: http://cryomedical.blogspot.com/2010/03/patents-in-cryonics.html Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=32689