X-Message-Number: 3286 Date: Tue, 18 Oct 94 13:57:05 From: Subject: CRYONICS The bottom line. I would like to clear up some mistakes I made. In my posting "Uncovering History" I did confuse what I had heard and read about CryoSpan and CryoCare. I apologize for any hard-feelings or confusion it might have caused. However, I still believe it is best for the company that is responsible for holding the patients to also hold the money. That is an entirely differently discussion perhaps for later. As for Mike Darwin's old posting #1627 on the history of CryoSpan's patients, that was suggested clears up all the misconceptions about Saul Kent's earlier failures, I have received a new copy of it from Kevin (thank you). I now do remember receiving it earlier when it was originally sent. My memory being refreshed, I also remember that it contains so many personal attacks on me in the most ugly and dishonest way, that I was unable to respond to it and had to put it out of my mind for the time being. Let me just quote one of the many sentences about me filtered in between the lines in Mike Darwin's posting. "I cannot tell you the rage I feel when confronted with the filth pouring out of the month of a creature of Dave Pizer's stature. Filth couched in the language of friendship, fairness and gentility." Shortly after I read Mike Darwin's posting I resigned off CryoNet and gave business excuses, but the truth is that was only part of the reason and Mike Darwin succeeded in hurting my feelings so bad I wanted to not have to ever listen to him again. I have now resigned myself to the fact that one cannot be in cryonics without having to listen to Mike Darwin at least occasionally. So I will try to stick in there if he does this again. Again, I must apologize for forgetting about this posting, I did read it back then but I had repressed it because of the personal attacks on me. I wish in the future we could correspond with out the specific name-calling. My original understanding of what happened to CSNY and CryoSpan had its roots in two phamplets originally published by the two companies. In the phamplets, Saul Kent paints a very rosy picture of what is going on with his two companies. After I was in cryonics a little while, I had heard vaguely that from beginning to end, CSNY and CryoSpan were always short of money and having problems. Therefore even though I had trouble getting people to reveal the actual facts to me, I could assume at the same time of publishing these phamplets, the companies were having big troubles and so the two stories did not sound the same. If the phamplets were a true picture, I was perplexed as to why they went out of business when the phamplets (and monthly magazines they published) sounded so like things were so great. Here are just a few quotes from one of the phamplets: "Cryo-Span advisory personnel include attorneys, insurance experts, estate planners, psychologists, and theologians. Guidance is available for every step of the way." "Cryo-Span technical personnel include: specially-trained physcians, scientists, funeral directors, and engineers. We are constantly seeking ways of up-grading our methods and improving our facilities." The accompanying pictures show a very professional-looking medical person in what appears to be a well equipped medical setting using varying equipment on a patient. You have to see the overall brochures to get the picture that they are painting that they are a vibrant and successful company. There certainly are no pictures or statements to inform prospects that the company was having the problems Mr. Darwin now says was really happening. Contrast these pphamplets to what Mike Darwin NOW says was really going on. He recently posted several pages on why things were so bad that Saul could not be blamed for the failure. Here are just a few of the many sentences by Darwin describing how bad it was.: "It was a time when NO ONE was interested in cryonics but a tiny handful of people." "Of course Curtis and Saul could have thawed the patients out right then and there. But they didn't because they were hostages to their decency and loyalty to the patients and because like the rest of us, JUST COULDN'T BELIEVE THINGS WOULDN'T GET BETTER IF ONLY THEY COULD HANG ON LONG ENOUGH. Instead, things just got worse." The bottom line on this whole matter is this: What I don't like is that now everyone says that Saul and Curtis were struggling and it wasn't their fault they went out of business yet at the same time as all these problems Saul was publishing brochures that made it look like things were great at CSNY and CryoSpan. Now that Saul is with a new company I don't want to see that happen again. I am concerned because I don't want cryonics organizations (including Alcor) to give the public the impression that the technology and overall development of cryonics is further along then it is. I hope that if the new companies that Saul is affiliated with (or any cryonics companies) start having problems (even if those problems have already started happening) the people involved will report the problems to the public at once and will not be covered up. Dave Pizer Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=3286