X-Message-Number: 3293 Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 23:10:03 -0400 From: Subject: SCI. CRYONICS evidence A scientist correspondent--not unfriendly to cryonics, but not convinced either--has remarked on CryoNet bickering, and also said something (unclear) about "faith ascendant over proof." A few comments: I don't think the Net gives a balanced impression of what goes on in cryonics. Most of our time--even of the most contentious people--is probably spent productively. All the more reason to reduce the bickering, since it shows us in a bad light and thus impairs recruitment efforts. I'm not quite sure what [the correspondent means] by "faith ascendant over proof." It is true that many people believe what they want to believe, regardless of evidence (probably more true of our opponents than of us); but it is also true that a great many scientists have incorrect notions of what constitutes evidence. To provide persuasive evidence that a moon rocket was possible, it wasn't necessary to actually land one on the moon; Goddard and Tsiolkovsky provided the evidence long before the technology was available, despite lack of any absolute proof that it ever would become available. Eventually the U.S. committed billions to the project, still without any complete "proof" of success. Sixty years ago I saw clear evidence that one day we could revive people, if they were frozen reasonably soon after death. The evidence was not the kind of specific, quantitative experimental evidence that many scientists would demand, but valid all the same. It was simply the observation that we were learning anatomy and physiology (among other things) in ever greater and finer detail, with no barrier in sight to complete understanding, down to the atomic level; and that after understanding usually comes control. It was obvious that our bodies "know" how to effect myriad kinds of construction and repair, and there was no reason to expect that we could not--eventually--outdo blind and bumbling "nature." I couldn't predict the details of technology, but the sweep of history was clearly on our side. There was--and is--no guarantee of success, but the presumption of progress is very powerful. In recent years we have begun to see the outlines of some of the details of certain avenues of diagnosis and repair, including the work of Eric Drexler and Ralph Merkle. This has helped move a few scientists off the dime, but many more are still waiting for more proof, more details, more nearly complete demonstrated success. (Many, in fact--and especially physicians--demand COMPLETE success, being unwilling to put ANY BURDEN WHATSOEVER on the future--an attitude which is not stupid, but insane.) We need to keep reminding the undecided that the probability of success--revival and rejuvenation for THEMSELVES and their families in particular--is not some abstract number that exists or that is waiting to be discovered; it is a variable that depends, among other things, on the amount and timing of support for cryonics organizations as well as for cryonics research. Among the many feedbacks is that of motivation and commitment. Kibitzers--even friendly ones--contribute relatively little, and if death catches them still on the sidelines, the cosmos will probably extend little sympathy. Robert Ettinger Cryonics Institute Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=3293