X-Message-Number: 32977 From: Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 13:12:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: realism Charles Platt has offered his reasons for thinking that cryonicists are over-optimistic and that the outlook is bleak. I think he is wrong on several counts. Rather than enumerating these, I'll just try very briefly to summarize the situation and outlook as they appear to me. 1. The main reason for rejection is not scientific or practical skepticism, but just cultural inertia. This is clear for several reasons. For one thing, the misimpression that mammals have already been successfully frozen and revived did not result in a wave of sign-ups. Also, a variety of sources indicate that, even with guaranteed success, sign-ups would still be few. Also, look at the cases where reasonably well informed people declined cryonics for reasons other than likelihood of success, e.g. Pohl, Asimov, Clarke, Heinlein, and some of my relatives. In addition to cultural inertia, there is simple laziness or/and stupidity. Think of smoking. Breaking the habit had little or no social stigma, had plenty of main-line medical backing, and yet it took many years just to reduce the incidence of the habit substantially in the U.S. (In Asia apparently just about everybody still smokes.) An important element of the cultural inertia, or cultural legacy, is the fear factor--fear of betraying one's commitments to a "higher" value, as well as fear of what the neighbors will think. People mostly don't want radical change--just the present, gold plated and chocolate covered. Does this mean that motivation is hopeless? Far from it. Human stupidity is formidable but not invincible. We are gaining much too slowly still, but gaining none the less. 2. Financial viability. At CI, the marginal cost of a new patient is (relying on memory) around $20,000 lump sum. Talk of inflation is misleading. We are not subject to most of the vagaries of inflation, and some costs have decreased. Initially we estimated liquid nitrogen at around $1,000 per year per patient, and this held up for many years. More recently we have seen sharp improvements, with patients in our newest cryostats costing only around $100 per year per patient. Nitrogen was initially considered a major cost, but now is a minor cost. In event of unforeseen emergency I believe we can count on enough members pitching in with work or money or both. Alcor has made many mistakes in my opinion, and wasted a lot of money, and I agree that LEF is unreliable as a source of future donations. But Alcor still has a relatively large number of rich people, including several big-rich, and large donations are still coming. I don't see them going down. Remember that there are millions of millionaires in the U.S.--millions of people who could afford cryonics with negligible cost to their estates. Some of these will come around sooner or later. As a gamble--expected value vs. cost--you can't beat it. Robert Ettinger Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" [ AUTOMATICALLY SKIPPING HTML ENCODING! ] Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=32977