X-Message-Number: 33010 From: "Jens Rabis" <> References: <> Subject: AW: CryoNet #33001 Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 14:20:02 +0200 Hi Charles, ... have you asked a old rich man if he can think of a donor's body get? If the operation "old brain / whole head in a donation body donation was unsuccessful, you can freeze the brain / head quickly. What surprises me, especially the Christians in America (a free country, in contrast to Germany) are likely to have no problem, but they do not. Please inquire protestant and catholic teachers, then go to the rich. Charles get rich and support Cryonic. Christians do not need Cryonic or ... !? Ask the teacher. Tags: communion wafer body Jesus ************************* ... haben Sie schon mal einen reichen alten Menschen gefragt, ob er sich vorstellen kann einen Spenderkorper zu bekommen? Sollte die Operation "altes Gehirn/ganzer Kopf in einen Spenderkorper misslingen, kann man das Gehirn / den Kopf schnell einfrieren. Was mich wundert, besonders die Christen in Amerika (ein freies Land, im Gegensatz zu Deutschland) durften damit kein Problem haben, aber sie tun es nicht. Die Idee: Reiche christliche Menschen unterstutzen dafur Forschungen, bis sie selbst Korperspender benotigen. Befrage bitte evangelische und katholische Lehrer, gehe dann zu den Reichen. Charles, werde damit reich und unterstutze Kryonik. Christen brauchen keine Kryonik oder doch!? Frage die Lehrer. Stichwort: Hostie Leib Jesus Best greetings Cryoson Jens Rabis Germany-Berlin Message #33001 Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 18:08:43 -0700 Subject: the mentality of wealth From: Charles in Arizona <> I will address the "billionaires" topic within my very limited experience. I have spent a few hours with a guy who is among, I think, the 1,000 richest people in the world. I think I calculated that if he put $10 million into cryonics, that would be the equivalent of me spending around ten dollars. I have also been present at meetings with Don Laughlin, the casino owner, who is said to be worth at least $500 million. Both of these men are SIGNED UP. (Don Laughlin makes no secret of this.) They understand the cryonics paradigm and they want it. But they are still extremely reluctant about parting with money for cryonics-related purposes. Below I will try to suggest some reasons why. Most seriously wealthy people are very serious about wealth. It is their measure of success. So, they will pay the minimum unless someone can prove to them that spending more will buy them more. In Alcor's case, just the opposite. Putting more money into the Patient Care Trust will dilute it by a factor of at least a few hundred, as it is spread among other people whom the wealthy person has never met and doesn't care about. They have also learned to be cautious about donations, even for purposes such as employee salaries or public relations, although these are areas of cryonics where donations have been applied occasionally. Experience has taught them (rightly) that if you donate money to an organization which is run by business-amateurs who may not follow sound fiscal principles, the money may not be well used. If the organization offers the wealthy person a seat on the board, or some other measure of control, then maybe there will be a better chance of attracting his involvement; but what cryonics organization wants to do that? As for research: The wealthy person has to understand why the research is necessary. He thought he already bought cryopreservation. Now explain to him how you sold him something that doesn't work yet, and you need more of his money to make it work. Probably a lot more; certainly millions. Now make this sound legitimate and credible. Even if some hypothetical wealthy person fully buys into the need for research, once again we have the risk of people abusing donations. How does a wealthy person know if the scientists are for real? How can he trust them to get results? He probably thinks of research as a sink-hole which tends to consume unlimited amounts of money while always promising results tomorrow, and never quite delivering them today. There's a lot of truth in this. Of course, a wealthy person could allocate time to getting personally involved. But that would take him away from his primary occupation: Sustaining and increasing his wealth. It would mean that he would have to turn into a completely different type of person. I once asked the president of Gateway Computer why he didn't just sell all his stock, take the money, quit the company, and live the rest of his life in luxury, never needing to work again. Apparently no one had ever asked him this. He had had quick answers to all my other questions, but now he just stared at me. He had no answer at all. Then he said--"But we've only just started here!" gesturing at his office and the huge factory beyond. (This was at a time when Gateway was more successful than Dell, incidentally, and probably bigger than Compaq, which had not yet merged with HP.) Like many successful business people, he was obsessed with being more successful. The idea of just opting out would be like suggesting to a football player that he walk off the field in the middle of the game. Overall, when someone says, "A rational wealthy problem could solve all our problems," what he really means is, "If *I* were a wealthy person I would know how to spend the money." But he is not a wealthy person, he will never be a wealthy person, he does not think like a wealthy person, and probably he has not proposed his ideas to any seriously wealthy people. In addition there is the issue of protective colleagues, family, or friends. Wealthy people are besieged with scammers wanting money, so, naturally they have a protective entourage including accountants, partners, or relatives who form a protective barrier. Whether people in the entourage are self-interested (trying to maintain the wealth for themselves in some way) or genuinely concerned about fiscal responsibility, is a matter for debate. But this is something that I have seen in action. If the wealthy person is signed up, the entourage may tolerate it as a harmless eccentricity--but they are likely to intervene if the cryonoids start trying to get more of the money. Then there is the whole plausibility problem. About 15 years ago I attended a meeting of investors raising money for cold fusion research. I've told this story before, but it can never be told too often. I spoke at length with a man who was putting several million into the supposedly discredited process of cold fusion. I mentioned the subject of cryonics, outlined the reasons why it might work, and suggested he might be interested. "No," he said, without hesitation. "It's far too speculative." In other words: Implausible. I have also made a one-hour presentation on cryonics to Jeff Bezos, founder of Amazon. The founders of Facebook were also there, but I didn't recognize them back then, and they didn't say much. Bezos was a wonderful guy, super-smart, full of sharp questions, and he had a great sense of humor. He was so interested, he followed me out into the hallway to talk more. But when he had learned as much as he needed to know, he just smiled, thanked me very much, and walked away. Like so many other people I have dealt with over the years, he could see that cryonics had a chance of working, but he never imagined applying it to *himself.* This may be the biggest problem of all. 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