X-Message-Number: 33057 Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2010 10:20:42 -0800 (PST) From: Electro Boy <> Subject: Drac's Back --0-593584689-1289672442=:5379 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApoF7M2Hj3M I wanna suck your blood..... --- On Sat, 11/13/10, CryoNet <> wrote: From: CryoNet <> Subject: CryoNet #33055 - #33056 To: Date: Saturday, November 13, 2010, 10:00 AM CryoNet - Sat 13 Nov 2010 #33055: Holes [Perry E. Metzger] #33056: Re: CryoNet #33053 - #33054 [Gerald Monroe] Rate This Digest: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=33055%2D33056 Administrivia To subscribe to CryoNet, send email to: with the subject line (not message _body_): subscribe To unsubscribe, use the subject line: unsubscribe To post a message to CryoNet, send your message to: from the same address to which you are aubscribed. Send questions, comments, or feedback to with "CryoNet" or "cryonics" somewhere in the Subject line. Message #33055 Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 09:02:50 -0500 From: "Perry E. Metzger" <> Subject: Holes References: <> > From: "Chris Manning" <> > > [snip] > > >> How can the robots even get into a cell without tearing a hole? > > > > You clearly can't enter a cell without producing a hole in it -- > > cell membranes are not Klein bottles, so getting from the outside > > to the inside requires a hole. The question is how you make a > > hole that is either easily repaired or which self-seals. Again, > > this has been considered before, in great detail. Freitas' > > "Nanomedicine" is quite comprehensive. > > Nature must have solved this problem already, as water and > nutrients pass into cells and wastes are removed. So - how does > Nature do it? Can we imitate Nature, or even improve on it? Small molecules travel directly across the membrane through small pores in it. Some substances are actively transferred across the membrane by mechanisms embedded in it, some travel purely via osmotic pressure. None of these mechanisms will work for objects comparable in size to organelles or the cell itself. On the other hand, natural systems penetrate the membrane without permanently damaging it quite routinely -- for example, viruses do this. These are very easy to answer questions, easily answered by reading basic biology textbooks. In any case, I doubt that we will be imitating any of these mechanisms in detail. They're all inappropriate. Perry -- Perry E. Metzger Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=33055 Message #33056 References: <> From: Gerald Monroe <> Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2010 00:10:08 -0600 Subject: Re: CryoNet #33053 - #33054 --001485f9a53e56abb50494e910dd Chris : nature tears holes. Also, at room temperature, the lipid membranes of a cell are self healing and will spontaneously reform if a hole is punctured. But at cryogenic temperatures, everything is a solid rock. That's the reason why I keep asking how an independent robot around the scale of a virus or small bacterium could possibly repair the brain at those temperatures. (versus an integrated machine that internally operates at higher temperatures and is supplied with external power and cooling by the kilowatt) --001485f9a53e56abb50494e910dd Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 [ AUTOMATICALLY SKIPPING HTML ENCODING! ] Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=33056 End of CryoNet Digest ********************* --0-593584689-1289672442=:5379 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 [ AUTOMATICALLY SKIPPING HTML ENCODING! ] Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=33057