X-Message-Number: 33083 From: Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 07:04:54 -0500 (EST) Subject: again, known strategies DSS and many others seem to me to remain off target, including mislabeling and giving insufficient recognition to proven ploys. First, "religion" for most purposes does not relate to divinity but to such ordinary assets as fellowship and supportive interaction, exemplified in part by family, and including communism. Such types of support and morale building are found almost everywhere, from families to ideologies to political parties to fraternal organizations to business associations. Nothing prevents cryonicists from offering these things without counterproductive labels--nothing except the tendency of cryonicsts to be individualistic and logical in a narrow sense, rather than group oriented and giving recognition to psychological realities. More specifically, experience tells us, as DSS and others have repeatedly recognized, that one-to-one or one-to-several recruitment efforts work best with your own close family and friends, provided you have patience and avoid sharp edges. These efforts HAVE worked and ARE working. The wheel has been invented and we just have to keep on using it and quit wasting breath on some wished-for magic. Personality of course is important. Some individuals, such as Mike Darwin in the past, have shown remarkable effectiveness in one-on-one recruitment, while others will have to work much harder at doing what does not come naturally. We don't have any golden-glottis preachers at present of whom I am aware, but some of us are relatively good at it and can get better with attention and practice. Emphasize love, not logic. Avoid talk of radical change in the future. Robert Ettinger In a message dated 11/28/2010 5:00:06 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, writes: CryoNet - Sun 28 Nov 2010 #33082: Re: Chastising Charles [David Stodolsky] Rate This Digest: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=33082%2D33082 Administrivia To subscribe to CryoNet, send email to: with the subject line (not message _body_): subscribe To unsubscribe, use the subject line: unsubscribe To post a message to CryoNet, send your message to: from the same address to which you are aubscribed. Send questions, comments, or feedback to with "CryoNet" or "cryonics" somewhere in the Subject line. Message #33082 Subject: Re: Chastising Charles From: David Stodolsky <> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2010 22:40:28 +0100 References: <> On 27 Nov 2010, at 11:00 AM, CryoNet wrote: > > The rich folks need our numbers. WIthout us they have no chance. I don't see how cryonics can make the transition from being a fringe movement to being mainstream, without a political confrontation with what we might term bio-conservatism. This would include both what are now recognized as conservative forces, eg, the Catholic Church, and radicals in the environmental movement - most often considered to be on the Left. The more extreme elements in both camps have used violence. Assassinations of doctors providing abortions and attacks on animal labs are examples. However, there are also mainstream forces that set the stage for the more extreme elements. The mainstream forces complain of resource shortages, eg, "Peak Oil", "Global Warming", and, in general, support the view that having less people would be a good idea. The old "Population Bomb" nonsense is recycled on a regular basis: http://www.ontheissuesmagazine.com/2009fall/2009fall_hartmann.php These views set the cultural climate and make it easy for the extremists to recruit new members. Extremists are also 'used' by the mainstream. An example of this was the verbal attack on the Tides Foundation by a talk show host that resulted in some gun nut hopping in his car and driving off to liquidate the employees of the Foundation. Current suspension providers are vulnerable to this type of vigilante action. Countermeasures against these kinds of threats are very expensive and would be a lot more effective with a greater scale of operations. > > I have shown a number of times how the Bible supports cryonics. There is no evidence that this kind of logical appeal will change attitudes toward cryonics. In fact, there is pretty good evidence it will not. > Dude, religion is in our GENES. It is there, built-in. Hardwired. The success of secular ideologies, like communism, argues against this view. Inclusion in a meaning defining (sub)culture seems to be what is required. > Actually, my messages in this vein are meant for young people who are interested in cryonics and may in the future come across my messages. I am planting seeds in the brains of future cryos. I am not trying to convince the older cryos who already have a set worldview. In general, young people consider themselves immortal and will not take action. Existential concerns rise in middle age. Once the person has found a 'solution' to mortality, then they again stop thinking about the problem. So, the best chance of getting someone to enroll is during the middle-age period of concern. However, accurately targeting this segment is likely to be difficult and the magnitude of the mental transition from the conventional to the cryonicist view may be too large for the standard marketing approaches. Life long involvement in a culture is the normal channel for transmission of these types of views. This type of structure is also more likely to be resistant to financial instability and other types of shocks. So, some new strategy involving groups seems necessary. Even extreme individualists function within a cultural framework, whether they wish to accept this or not. Therefore, the kind of dispute we are seeing above is likely to be minimized with a new cultural/group strategy for growth. dss David Stodolsky Skype: davidstodolsky Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" [ AUTOMATICALLY SKIPPING HTML ENCODING! ] Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=33083