X-Message-Number: 3315
Date: 21 Oct 94 09:54:21 EDT
From: Mike Darwin <>
Subject: CRYONICS Pizer's Delicate Condition

Dave (Pizer)  now claims he remembers my post but, because it was so horrible
and offensive to his delicate sensibilities he "repressed it",  until recently
reminded of it.  I saw an ad the other day at the tail end of one of the
daytime talk shows asking for guests who have repressed memories that have
ruined their lives....  If Dave find my post so horrible he "repreressed it"

only to remember later, then I'll bet fully 1/2 of Dave's life lies hiddden away
and repressed.  Maybe he should consider going on the show....

I any event, I now understand that Dave is a *victim*, someone suffering from a

syndrome for which he is not really responsible.  I'll have to remember this the

next time *I* get caught with my pants down; the trauma made me do it.  (My God,
whatever happened to the Devil, s/he was so much more interesting and colorful
an excuse; secularization of sin sure does leave a lot to desired, don't it.)

As to the comments about the CSNY/Cryo-Span brochures being untrue or
misleading, well I think Mike Perry hits the nail right on the head.  At the
time they were printed the following was true:

Jane Enzman, M.D. was actively involved in CSNY.  In fact, the glass bubble trap
mounted on the IV pole with the sphygomanometer (blood pressure  gauge) hooked
to it was designed by Jane to be incorporated into the perfusion circuit.

Several physicians contributed to the CSNY protocol, as did nascent
cryobiologists, some of whom have gone on to run organ preservations organ
programs.  Hell, one of them even helped freeze a CSNY patient!]

Harry Waitz was both an engineer and a consultant to CSNY during this period of
time.  Karl Werner, the guy who coined the word cryonics was also on engineer
and helped with much of the earky work.  Also, via CryoCare Equipment
Corporation there were two engineers who's talents were available to CSNY; both
of them with experience in cryogenic engineering.  One of these men is still
involved in cryonics. Ted Gartland was also an experienced welder and something
(although not much) of an engineer.

Further, where engineering skills are involved, I would point out that Cryo-Span

developed the basic design for human cryopreservation units that is still in use
by both Alcor and trans Time: the upright, vacuum-jacketed dewar with an open
mouth, large foam neckplug, and high quality, long-lasting superinsulated
vacuum.  This dewar was developed by several individuals: the basic design work
for dimensions and conception were laid out by Curtis Henderson (who not an
engineer but a lawyer).  His work in this area has withstood the test of time.

The engineering modifications (excluding design of the siderails, which was also
Curtis') and the actual final drawings and execution of the units were done by
Minnesota Valley Engineering.  At that time, a fellow by the name of Schuster
was running the company and he was very friendly to cryonics and consulted

extensively with Curtis (and later with me) on storage unit design.  Shuster was
an engineer, and a damn good one and his talents WERE available.  I have a
redrawn copy of the MVE-Henderson engineering drawings hanging on the wall here
in Rancho.  It is faithfful copy on acetate of the original blueline (which
oxidized away over time, as bluelines do).

It is no stretch to say that Cryo-Span had engineers available to it.  After
all, Cryo-Span working with MVE designed THE unit that remained the domninant
"cryocapsule" for over a decade.

Paul Segall was also on site then.  He was conducting aging research and also
providing consulting and information for human freezings.

I would also point out that simply by turning to the back page of any issue of
Cryonics Reports  produced concurrent with the Cryo-Span brochures the Daves
alledge were misleading will show a list of people who consented to have their
names *openly published*  as consultants to CSNY.  That lists includes a

prominent psychologist of on death and dying (who just recently published a very
find book with a chapter on cryonics in it: Robert Kastenbaum and his
*Encyclopaedia of Death*)_ cryobiologists and, if memory serves me, an engineer
or two.  There were also people like Peter Gouras, M.D. around at the time who
were willing and available to provide input and and advice, although not
publically.  Indeed, near the end of CSNY's existence Grouras and others who
consitutue being scientists and physicians collaborated on an extended exchange
of ideas on perfusion protocol initiated by, as I recall, Art Quaife and Fred
and Linda Chamberlain.

Thus, the notion that CSNY did not have these people available is not supported
by the facts.

As to the equipment in the brochure (the four color Cryo-Span brochure Dave
refers to). CSNY/Cryo-Span owned it all.  I know this because, as Cryo-Span

began to disintegrate some years later, I bought every single technical item you
see in those pictures.  With the exception of the rubber mask (which Alcor has
in the CSNY archives) and the glass bubble trap and sphyg (which I later broke

while using) I STILL have that equipment.  The roller pump was used for years at
Alcor to pump Silcool and alcohol out of cooling baths.  It still works and I
still have it, although it is now painted blue rather rather than gree as it
appeared in the brochure.  I also still have the Westinghouse Iron Heart
pictured in the brochure; I bought it from Curtis for $400 while in high school
so he could by a new engine for his VW truck and continue to haul LN2 to keep
the patients frozen.  The Iron Heart sill works too, last time I tried it!

Having said all this, I would be the first to agree that the Cryo-Span brochure
was a conscious attempt to make CSNY look good.  Maybe even look better than it

was.  This is NOT uncommon in cryonics or in any marketing area.  In fact it is,

as far as I have been able to determine, it is an absolute rule as unvariable as
gravitation.  I remember *many* people (most promiently Brian Wowk because he
was so vocal about it) being very disenchanched when he actually saw the Alcor
facility in Riverside after being exposed ONLY to Alcor literature.  Nothing,
and I mean NOTHING in the Alcor literature could have prepared anyone for what

the facility (Alcor/Cryovita) was like in Fullerton.  Even the pictures, which I
look at from time to time, cannot convey the clutter, crowding, dust, bare,
stained concrete floors, etc.

In fact, until I pained it with Epoxy paint (a relatively late development) the
old Cryovita/Alcor operating room floor in Fullerton was naked concerete badly
stained with rust and old (soaked in oil stains).  Photos made during this
period were at GREAT pains to minimize not only these rather grody cosmetic

defects, but also the generally shabby state of things, say, compared to Alcor's
subsequent facilties in either Riverside or Arizona.

Furthermore, media photograohers would often go to great lengths to have me
reduce clutter in the OR, move equipment around (so that it was in misleading
and inappropriate positions), or otherwise fool with the lighting/or background
to make things look more impressive than they really were.

Hugh Hixon will remember very well the photographer who came out to shoot the
picture of me with the open Alcor neuropatient vault (with the interior glowing

yellow inside; this picture was used in Alcor literature on several occassions).
In order to get the shot the photographer had to build  an artificial black
background to hide the clutter and shabby walls behind the dewar.  He also had
to use multiple time exposures.  The shots took al day and I was exhausted
afterwards (as well as given an appreciation as to just how hard professional
models must really work).

All of this, including many of the carefully selected pictures in Alcor
literature, were consciously designed to put the BEST face on things.  This is
how marketing is done.  Universally.  Period.  I have never liked it myself

(although I enjoyed viewing the nice, aesthetic looking pictures that resulted).

If I were to print what Alcor (or ANY) cryonics patients look life after
cryoprotective perfusion, or cephalic isolation, I doubt it would do Alcor any
good or cryobixs as whole!  In fact, there is a conscious decision NOT to show
such pictures.   They woulve a terrible impact on marketing (an no, it is NOT
just to protect patients; some patients could care less and have said so).

If CSNY was guilty of anything, it was guilty of this.  

What I find REALLY, REALLY ironic.  I mean REALLY ironic,  is that these
criticisms would come from Dave Pizer.  Why?  Because Dave was once a used car
salesman who has spent some hours explaining in great detail (to me) how he
hyped car sales and glossed over problems to customers, some of whom had
families or tight budgets.  In fact, Dave taught me a great deal about used car
sales and I consider this information valuable; I have used it to my benefit in
dealing with used car dealers ever since.

As I said at the start, people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks.

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