X-Message-Number: 33192 From: "sbharris1" <> References: <> Subject: Kurzweil Water Woo #2 (CryoNet #33186) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 21:46:22 -0800 Here is some very effective stuff against the alkaline water internet scams, much of which Grossman and Kurzweil seem to have fallen for: http://www.chem1.com/CQ/ionbunk.html There's even a bit on Fantastic Voyage: http://www.chem1.com/CQ/ionbunk.html#FV Ray Kurzweil certainly has the intelligence to learn a little Chem 101 acid-base chemistry. He also could and should have gone to some conventional scientists (chemists, respiratory physiologists, nephrologists) after being warned that there was some stuff about pH in the book that was going to be roundly criticized. The doctors who study and write about pH problems for a living (of which there are many) aren't all in the pocket of drug companies. In medical school, the textbook from which we learned blood gases and acid-base problems was technically fairly dense (it's probably the worst inorganic chem that conventional M.D.s have to face in practice), and not at all sexy. If the guys who wrote it were in the pocket of anybody, who would it have been? The giant TUMS or citrate laxative conglomerate? Incidentally, I saw a new magnesium salt on the health food store shelves just today: magnesium malate. It's being promoted for being a Krebs cycle intermediate, but of course anybody metabolizing glucose makes all those things (citrate being one of them). It's not the organic acids per se that alkalinize you; it's the metals that go along with them and the fact that the acids must be metabolized to bicarbonate. The malate seems cheaper than the lactate as a supplement, but didn't look quite as inexpensive as the citrate. Any of these are usable to raise urine pH, and in reasonable doses (300 to 400 mg magnesium) they make fine supplements. Just don't overdo it. BTW, looking at my previous letter, it doesn't look at all clear why taking a metal chloride (like sodium chloride) should do nothing for your acid/base status, but taking an alkaline salt (like simple sodium bicarbonate) will. The answer is although NaCl is neutral, actually sodium chloride intake does have the same effect of acid intake in some ways, and details and just being hammered out (see http://ajprenal.physiology.org/content/293/2/F521.full). This may turn out to be yet another reason why too much sodium chloride is bad for some people. However, the easier-to-understand fact is the other fact that the body has to "pay" for every bit of alkali it neutralizes in food, and it does that by excreting metal bicarbonate in the urine, or the reaction product of these with sulfuric or phosphoric acids, which are metal phosphates or sulfates (both more or less neutral in pH, with the phosphate depending on how it is titrated). Remember how this works: in the stomach, "proton pumps" pump HCl into the stomach and an equivalent amount of bicarbonate HCO3- is released into the blood. These recombine when bicarbonate-rich pancreatic juice neutralizes stomach acid. The net result is nothing. But if you neutralize some stomach acid on your own with a metal salt base like sodium bicarbonate or calcium carbonate, then extra bicarbonate is effectively released into the blood, where it cannot get back into the gut from pancreatic juice (which is secreted to keep pH in the small bowel balanced). So that bicarbonate (along with the metal that goes with it, if it was absorbed) must be gotten rid of by the kidneys or deposit in your tissues (in the case of calcium). Your kidneys get rid of bicarbonate by actively secreting bicarbonate into the urine, which they can only do if there is a cation to go with it (your kidneys can't just excrete carbonic acid into your urine-- they can excrete bicarbonate but a soluble ion like sodium has to go with it). The sodium bicarbonate neutralizes metabolic acids (phosphoric and sulfuric) and that brings urine pH up. This is all well and good, if you don't take more base than you make acid for. If you are taking magnesium, 500 mg (about 42 meq) of a soluble magnesium salt like citrate is enough to offset a good fraction of your metabolic acid load, which is of 50-100 meq a day (American diet). http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/242975-overview . This is true even with no calcium antacid. Remember, your urine doesn't actually need to be alkaline. For reasons discussed below, it's not good if it is. Remember, every antacid in the world neutralizes your metabolic acids and raises the pH of your urine, so why buy a water electrolysis machine to do it? The answer is that there isn't any good reason. There are reasons not to take antacids of certain types in quantity as health-aids, however. Sodium bicarbonate presents a sodium load, and too much alkali (of any kind) can present pH problems if your diet has too much calcium in it. This happens at intakes of more than 2000 milligrams of calcium as carbonate, which is 100 milliequivalents (meq) or so-- enough to alkalinize your urine even with a normal metabolic acid load. That can happen to milk drinkers, but is more likely to happen to calcium antacid users. When too much base in soluble form is ingested (enough to make your urine actually alkaline, due to alkaline load), the base load must cause bicarbonate to be secreted by the kidneys, and they lose sodium and eventually chloride trying to do this. That leads to low chloride in the body, a low volume state, and highly absorbed calcium actually precipitating out into tissues because it has no where else to go in an alkaline environment. This state was actually called the "milk-alkali syndrome" http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/123324-overview in the days when milk and antacids were the mainstays of ulcer treatment. Today it's less often seen, but the metabolic problems it causes are the same, in theory, any time so much base is taken that the urine is alkalinized, especially if calcium supplements of any kind are being also taken. If you take basic magnesium supplements, you probably will retain enough calcium in your urine that you won't need to supplement with calcium. The bottom line for antacids and macromineral supplementation is this: so long as your kidneys are fine (get basic lab-work) you can take around 300 to 500 mg of magnesium as the citrate, malate or lactate (watch for laxative effects and cut back if you need to). Take a vitamin D supplement to get your vitamin D levels in normal range. Take calcium supplements only if you're trying to correct known calcium bone losses (confirmed by DEXA = DXA scan) and under treatment by a doctor. That's about as much acid/base care as you need, unless something else is clearly going wrong with you. Steve Harris, M.D. Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=33192