X-Message-Number: 33352
From: 
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 06:41:29 EST
Subject: CryoNet #33350 - #33351

FD writes: 
 
There would appear to be nothing illegal or improper for a  cryopreservation
team to pick up immediately on someone who is pronounced  dead from an
assisted suicide.  It might though become a  hysteria-trigger for the press
and the anti-cryonics promoters, who would,  first, get it wrong and call it
"euthanasia" and, second, shout aloud as to  moral and ethical 
improprieties,
including false claims that the cryonicist  was a victim of those greedy
organizations who killed him for his life  insurance money, and on and on.
Maybe the cryo organizations should draw  their line in the sand, and say
enough is enough, they are no longer going to  be intimidated by the 
rantings
and ravings of irresponsible online  journalists and anti-cryonic
propagandists, and are instead just going to do  the right thing and let the
fallout go where it will?  The detractors  are always going to find 
something
adverse to say, no matter what you do or  don't do.


Cheers,

FD



Aw now FD, you've gone and stolen some of my thunder ;-). I'm working  on 
several position pieces that deal with just this issue (and related  ones).
 
If you (and other readers of CryoNet) go to: 


_http://chronopause.com/index.php/2011/02/23/does-personal-identity-survive-cryopreservation/_


(http://chronopause.com/index.php/2011/02/23/does-personal-identity-survive-cryopreserva
tion/)  you  will find a fairly complete discussion of the issue of whether 
or not personal  identity survives cryopreservation, based on our current 
understanding of the  neurobiology of long term memory. The utility of this 
article to any given  individual will depend a great deal on something that I 
do not treat at length  in the article, and that is precisely what personal 
identity is. I can still  recall my complete shock when, many years ago, 
Bill Falloon casually mentioned  that he could care less if his memory 
survived cryopreservation. I've  subsequently discovered that a number of 

cryonicists do not count declarative  (biographical) memory as essential to 
their 

identities. One cryonicist I know  believes identity is rooted in continuity of
consciousness, and still others  believe that it resides in a metaphysical 
and indestructible spirit or soul. So,  it all depends on who or what you 
think you are. I've no desire to criticize or  convince on that issue - it's a 
personal choice.
 
However, if you do count memory important, and you do not believe your  
identity resides in a non-physical entity, then the issue of ischemia will be 
of  considerable importance to you. And yes, going somewhere where this issue 
can be  discreetly and definitively dealt with is currently the best 

possible solution.  I'm a great booster of research, and I do think things can 
be 
done to improve  the outlook in some situations where arrest occurs 

suddenly, and quick  intervention is possible. But the fundamental problem of 
delay, 
and of other  complicating medico-legal situations will remain paramount. 
The only way to  effectively deal with these issues is at a community level. 
Individuals simply  cannot do this on their own - although occasionally some 
will. It takes the  infrastructure of a group of committed people. 
 
You can see this with very basic and simple issues, such as "man down  
alarms." Utterly pedestrian, and now (given the pace of tech advance in  

electronics) almost "ancient" technology, allows for very reliable detection of
immobility/cardiac arrest in the home setting - without wiring up  the person, 
or doing anything more than turning the system on and off when  entering or 
leaving the home - something that can be done with a microchip -  either 
implanted und the skin or worn in a bracelet or neck tag, if you ca be  

bothered to flip a switch. I've SEEN these systems in use in Central America to
"check in/out" dairy cattle when they go out to graze or come in to eat; in 
fact  each feeding station has a chip  reader and a scale and it records how 
much  feed the animal ate (the food bin has a load cell). So the technology 
for this  part of the application is literally off the shelf - regardless of 
 whether you are a cow, or a cryonicist. And yet, no one will implement it 
-  or if they do, it will remain an isolated and largely futile effort... 
That's  because these kinds of changes require the presence of a real physical 
 community, as do the capability to make use of them, in terms of response.
 
Finally, if this is done, it is nobody's business but ours. NOBODY'S. And  
it certainly isn't the media's. But that's another discussion for another 
time  and another place. And jetting off to Portland or Geneva will NOT solve 
the  problem. People don't die that way anymore.
 
Mike Darwin
 



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