X-Message-Number: 33354 References: <> From: Gerald Monroe <> Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 11:27:08 -0600 Subject: Re: CryoNet #33350 - #33351 --bcaec53f8d75e9435a049d1ea4bf Quick clarification : I was referring to the "assisted suicide" portion of the Death with Dignity Act. Whoever the patient is would have to push the plunger or the red button or take the pills themselves. This part would have to be video recorded, unfortunately, and the patient would state clearly that they understand that there is not a guarantee of revival and that regardless of the outcome of the cryonics, they do not wish to live the last 6 months of their life in excruciating pain while their mind slips away. Or something to the effect, I'm not a lawyer. The advantages for the preservation could be substantial. It's not just post-death when the brain suffers ischemia and damage...many terminal patients lose blood flow to the brain or the tumors spread there and suffer permanent pre-death brain damage. And this damage happens over a period of weeks, such that the affect cells have a chance to commit apoptosis and be completely cleaned up by the macrophages. This kind of brain damage *would be impossible to repair with nanotechnology. The memories stored in these cells would be destroyed as if they had been incinerated*. Perhaps we could convince the public that a cryo-preservation is death with dignity? The patient goes to sleep knowing there's a chance this isn't the end, and doesn't have to suffer through the last terminal stage of their illness. Their body doesn't rot into stinking mush afterwards (at least their brain doesn't) but is cleanly stored away. One last comment : there's another 'loophole' in the laws that was used in at least one cryonics case. If you're completely dependent on artificial life support, you can order the machine *turned off*. It does *not *count as a suicide or euthansia, but "*refusal of treatment/allowing nature to take it's course*". Medical ethics sees a huge difference between an action and an (in)action, even when the results of said action or inaction are the same. A patient was on a ventilator and asked it to be turned off. He was declared dead within a few minutes and the CI team was able to rush in to preserve him. Mike Darwin thought the results in this case were much better than normal because there weren't blood clots visible in the capillaries of his brain that block perfusion of the cryo-protectant. The blood gas numbers also looked a lot better. But even this man suffered tens of minutes of ischemia because he didn't have the vascular connections to the heart-lung machine already established, and the team had to wait more than 5 minutes after the patient stopped breathing for legal death to be declared. A large dose of drugs self administered lawfully as part of "death with dignity" would stop the heart immediately, allowing a doctor to declare legal death more quickly and at a time when the cryonics team is fully prepared to act. --bcaec53f8d75e9435a049d1ea4bf Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 [ AUTOMATICALLY SKIPPING HTML ENCODING! ] Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=33354