X-Message-Number: 3381 Subject: SCI.CRYONICS: CRYONICS under pressure From: (Ben Best) Date: Thu, 3 Nov 1994 01:24:00 -0500 I'm glad to see that my third posting on High Pressure Cryonics finally elicited some comments. My first posting acknowledged Dr. Fahy's work -- I was making no claims of originality. Even so, the High Pressure techniques that Greg Fahy attempted were very limited and he did not experiment with all the variables I would have liked him to. Evidently, his cryoprotectant work proved fruitful enough that he could set High Pressure techniques aside. But if Dr. Fahy's cryoprotectant formula is so superior to glycerol, why can cryonicists CURRENTLY and in GOOD CONSCIENCE continue to use glycerol for cryopreservations? Would Dr. Fahy not sell or rent rights to use of his solution by cryonicists? Although the use of High Pressure in cryobiology is not new, I believe that the use of VERY High Pressure, as suggested by Nikolas Georg Hergenhahn is entirely novel. I acknowledge that having manageable equipment to apply High Pressure to a whole body or even just a head seems daunting, but I'd like to see what some competent engineers could come up with. In fact, Hergenhahn believes he could perform such experiments himself -- and apparently intends to (although he would appreciate financial support). He cites the fact that 100,000 atmospheres are currently being used for the artificial synthesis of diamonds. I'm glad to hear that Robert Ettinger would include High Pressure techniques in his research plan. Personally, I don't think he should concern himself too much with the re-warming stage. Although viability is desireable, elimination of structural damage is a far more significant step in my view. And future science will definitely be needed for repairing the deceased elderly anyway. Brian Wowk raises the *possibility* that protein denaturation may be occurring in commercial divers at 2,000 feet. But why can sperm whales regularly dive to depths of 3,700 feet? What of the fish that live at 37,000 feet on the bottom of the Mariana trench? Could the case of the divers simply be something like "the bends" (ie, the release of pressure, not the application of pressure, may be the problem)? It is *possible* that Very High Pressure could be destructive, but it is also *possible* that it is nowhere nearly as damaging as we think -- or as damaging as the alternatives. Even if protein denaturation does occur with High Pressure, this must be weighted against the *known* toxicity of cryoprotectants and the *known* devestation due to freezing damage. I am saying that I would like experiments to be performed with High Pressure and with Very High Pressure. I hope Brian is not saying that experiments should *not* be performed because it is *possible* they will not be fruitful. Of course, if the Millenium has come and suspended animation of the brain is virtually guaranteed with cryoprotectant solution alone, I will be as glad as anyone. -- Ben Best () Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=3381