X-Message-Number: 339 From att!CompuServe.COM!73337.2723 Fri May 17 01:40:07 EDT 1991 Date: 17 May 91 01:18:00 EDT From: Brian Wowk <> To: <> Subject: Reply to Art Quaife Message-Id: <"910517051759 73337.2723 DHJ22-1"@CompuServe.COM> To: >INTERNET: For the record, Mike Darwin is not my "backstage voice": I wrote my previous message without any communication with him at all. I was not even aware he was on this mailing list. So my account of the V.J. suspension was "seventh hand" and had "the same certainty and accuracy as the Weekly World News", according to Art Quaife. This is a very interesting comparison, since my recollection of this suspension was based on an article I read in the JOURNAL OF THE AMERICAN CRYONICS SOCIETY while visiting Alcor in the spring of 1988. A bit of checking revealed the specific issue as Vol 5., No. 3, June 1988, J of ACS. Let me quote the words of Dr. P.S. himself: "I managed to maintain chest compressions, but not ventilation, owing to the danger of possible contamination with saliva, which could contain deadly pathogens such as those in T.B." In other words, this guy kept pumping on her chest, but didn't have a bag- valve mask, and was too wimpy to do mouth-to-mouth resuscitation to maintain blood oxygenation. The result was predictable. He goes on to say: "Although before transport the blood was quite acid (approx. 6.5), the blood ph rose to above 6.8 and quickly approached 7.1 before suspension begun." Normal blood ph is 7.4. The rise in ph occurred only after arrival at Trans Time, and after buffers and perfusate were administered. In other words, V.J.'s blood ph was < 6.5 during the whole transport. People dead on the floor for an hour have higher ph's (typically 6.8). V.J. had ten times normal H+ ion concentration in her blood during transport: this is protein- curdling ph! This was the result of chest compressions without ventilation. A few questions: * Why, according to the above article, was the Trans Time team running around at the last minute trying to find a vehicle to transport V.J.? Why wasn't this arranged well in advance? * Why didn't the transport team have a bag-valve mask, and buffering medications? * Exactly why didn't the team give mouth-to-mouth resuscitation to V.J. (a very elderly lady, hardly likely to be harboring "deadly pathogens")? People who collapse ON THE STREET often get better first aid from passersby! Contrast this case with the Alcor suspension team which, in one case I'm aware of, had to-- and did -- administer mouth-to-mouth resuscitation to an Alcor patient. (The team member did get influenza as a result, but this "comes with the territory" as he later said.) I make no apologies for the "negative" tone of this, or my previous message. This, Dr. Quaife, is what happens when you come onto this mailing list taking cheap shots at "can-rattler" Alcor, and obfuscate issues by accusing people of rumor-mongering and "seventh hand" reporting. Your unwillingness (or inability) to respond to the issues raised by Mike Darwin is not very impressive either. --- Brian Wowk Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=339