X-Message-Number: 3447
From:
Subject: CRYONICS Replies
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 1994 23:45:58 -0800 (PST)
On Thu, 8 Dec 1994 01:25:54 -0500 (EST) wrote:
> I regret to see that Keith Henson has inherited the habit of reprinting
> second-hand allegations that seem designed to reopen old wounds in a
> presumed attempt to settle old scores.
Second-hand? Ok, just what is the status of Oceania? In light of the fact
that one of the principals made false accusations about Alcor, it only seems
fair to question that person's integrity. Oh, I don't suppose Eric is doing
any "investment counseling" for CryoCare, is he?
> Keith writes:
>
> > This is a little out of date, and I have no idea of the level of truth
> > involved.
>
> Well, Keith, if I saw a five-month-old allegation that YOU were involved
> in a "scam," I think I would feel some personal responsibility to verify
> the story before splashing it all over the net. I might even pick up the
> telephone and ask you about it. Wouldn't this be courteous and prudent?
>
> I am not close to Eric Klien (I have had my own differences with him in
> the past) but it troubles me to see anyone being targeted like this.
Oceania's troubles, Charles, were NOT a secret. Why don't YOU send Eric
Klien some email and ask him what happened? You ought to find out, since you
are v. p. of CryoCare; I'm told that Oceania's literature was prominently
displayed on CryoCare's table at the recent Ontario conference. If CryoCare
is going to give that kind of endorsement to other organizations you need to
show at least that much responsibility.
> > Two-three years ago Eric
> > Kline made a number of accusations about Alcor--which were eventually
> > refuted (at great cost) by an audit.
>
> Since you have already made it clear you're not interested in accuracy, I
> suppose it's irrelevant to point out that the name is spelled KLIEN, not
> KLINE.
How does a typo or simple error in spelling translate into a lack of interest
in accuracy? That remark is not only petty, its just plain dumb.
> As for your implicit suggestion that Alcor incurred cost because of
> "accusations" from Klien, the way I remember it, Alcor directors
> repeatedly emphasized that Klien's opinions were of no interest to them
> whatsoever. There were a lot of other people asking irritating questions,
> and the audit was deemed a good idea by just about everyone. Since it
> enhanced Alcor's credibility and was largely paid for via directed
> donations, why do you have a problem with it?
Actually, Klien stated as "fact" that Alcor funds had been "misappropriated",
and both Courtney Smith and Bob Krueger signed a document agreeing with him:
all that was public and on this net. I understand only Courtney retracted.
One very big problem that *I* had with the audit was that $14K+ went into the
pockets of a big CPA firm when it could have gone into more productive
projects. The part that didn't come from directed donations might have been
used for research, for instance.
> I thought this line of discussion ended about 18 months ago. Surely there
> must be more useful things to do than sling second-hand mud at one-time
> enemies? Please?
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, that's all I can say.
As for Eric Klien's #3442 entitled "Keith Henson The Genius"
> This is really impressive. Already one of Alcor board members is the
> defendant in a libel suit, now a different Alcor board member decides to
> start spreading some libel around.
Keith posted material that seems very relevant to me. I'm glad that you
mentioned the suit against one of Alcor's directors, though I had planned
to break the news myself. It's true: Carlos Mondragon is being sued by Saul
Kent for remarks *I* made earlier this year on sci.life-extension and this
mailing list (and yes I am included), although I haven't been served, so I
haven't yet chosen an attorney. Based on what I've been told by Carlos,
Kent & the Life Extension Foundation are *both* suing, and it wouldn't
surprise me if Kent is using LEF legal defense funds to carry out the attack.
Kent is demanding an immediate injunction to prevent Carlos or I from ever
posting anything negative about him in the future.
In my judgment, this is simply a case of Kent trying to use financial
intimidation to shut up criticism by using the power of the state against
a person he thought wouldn't have the means to defend himself. If the Life
Extension Foundation is using its resources for such devious purposes, then
I advise consumers to redirect their donations from LEF's legal defense fund
to a more ethical and respectable operation like The Cognitive Enhancement
Research Institute or the like.
> I am very glad that I decided to join
> CryoCare, a much more reputable organization.
A much more reputable organization huh? Let's see: Charles Platt, the
v. p. made an accusation against Carlos Mondragon on the politics list during
the tug-of-war over control of Alcor that he NEVER substantiated with ANY
facts whatsoever! Particularly, he said that Carlos was misusing Alcor's
Patient Care Fund (PCF): proven *false* by the audit Alcor had conducted.
And what about the theft of Alcor's mailing list, and a very indirect
and vague answer from president Peters posted to this net? And the icing on
the cake is that the "CryoCare family of companies" are on the strings of
Saul Kent! Sorry Eric, but CryoCare doesn't sound too reputable to me. And
not very stable either given CryoCare's limited resources, and the
"inappropriate risks" (according to Saul Kent) to which they choose to
expose their future patients.
> As to Alcor's finances, I
> believe that Alcor has been saved by the Dick Jones' estate doing much
> better than expected.
Eric wrote that funds were "missappropriated". He was proven to be a liar.
As for the quality of his opinion on Alcor's or anyone else's finances, well,
that's seems like just the issue that Keith addressed by means of the re-
posting.
> As to Scott Kjar, I finally got the funding to
> hit him with a libel suit, and a certified letter was sent off to him
> this morning. His accusations (which have been embelshed even more since
> July) are extremely far from the truth and my biggest regret in leaving
> the Libertarian party is that it enabled Scott Kjar to regain power six
> months or so after my absense. What a jerk and a good example of why the
> Libertarian party is doomed.
Anyone who a) is concerned about the future of the LP, and b) has met Eric
Klien, is now breathing a big sigh of relief.
> Finally, Keith, I should point out that Alcor's entire investment
> committee has now joined CryoCare so suggesting that I was insane
> about Alcor's finances may not be the best idea. I hope you are not
> suggesting that I brainwashed Courtney Smith and Bob Krueger into
> joining CryoCare!
The people who left Alcor were mostly on a power trip. Lives are at stake
here Eric, and with folks like you or Saul Kent in charge, things can fall
hard and fast! I know I'm no Warren Buffet, but unlike yourself at least I
know enough not to throw all my capital on one roll of the dice! :-)
Sorry for the flames folks, but they asked for it.
Ever forward,
David
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David Cosenza
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