X-Message-Number: 360 From att!cup.portal.com!alcor Sat Jun 22 14:19:38 PDT 1991 To: From: Subject: Philosophy, Technology, and Death Date: Sat, 22 Jun 91 14:19:38 PDT Message-Id: <> X-Origin: The Portal System (TM) PHILOSOPHY AND THE PROBLEM OF MR. BRANDEN'S DEATH Re messages #352, 354, 355, 356, 359, I find Branden's point of view disappointing, but not particularly remarkable. From the earliest known musings of philosopy, the question of the existence of death has been particularly intractable. Why should Man, the self-aware Lord of Creation under the gods, be subjected to eternal oblivion; and particularly, why should the individual philosopher (who would be king) suffer this fate? (Any philosopher worth his salt makes his way in the world by spitting into the wind, so the possession of an ego of some proportions is entirely understandable.) Whatever logical contortions they may put themselves through, the honest ones have come to understand that their lot is one with the beasts and insects; so they elevate death to the status of an axiom and make their peace. A most bitter peace, withall, but one gets that sort of thing in the quest for the truth. So here come the immortalists, and particularly, the cryonicists. We are the technologists, the dirty-fingernailed artisans, without a thought for the thoughts of these great men. (One is invariably reminded at this point of the comment that, "A civilization that exults philosophy, because it is an intellectual profession, and denegrates plumbing, because it is a dirty, manual THING, will soon find itself in trouble, as neither its philosophy nor its pipes will hold water.") And what do we do with this philosophically intractable problem of death? WE CREATE A TECHNOLOGICAL SOLUTION!, of course. So much for the musings of philosophers. And then there's the emotional aspect; a philosopher's thoughts are more dear to him than his children; they ARE his children! And to these parents, their children, immaculately conceived and carefully nurtured in their minds, can do no wrong. So it's entirely understandable that philosophers in general, and Mr. Branden in particular, should have some trouble with us. They have created a room in their house for Death, and carefully furnished it and arranged it, and closed the door and locked it. But it's always there, and they know with bitter certainty that someday they will pass through that door, and not come out. And we go clomping through the house in our muddy boots, and pop the expensive lock off the door with a crowbar, and look in this room, and we turn to the philosopher and we say, "So where's your problem?" And they get the idea that we may be snickering up our sleeves at them, and that we will never, never understand the GRAVITY of their thoughts on this thing. So it's understandable that they may be a bit upset and defensive and backwards with our cavalier solution to their personal Gordian Knot. I suppose they're right; we DO snicker a bit. But in the end, death is the common enemy of all of us, and though we have set ourselves on the path of Choice, that even those dearest or most valuable to us may choose death of their own free will, we know that each and every death diminishes us. And! We! Don't! Like! It! So have some sympathy for Mr. Branden; he's trying to deal with what has classically been an intractable problem the best he or anybody else knew how before Robert Ettinger, whom he's probably never heard of. But don't let him get in your way! The important thing is to be able to say, in the year 2991, "I once met Nathaniel Branden." If he isn't available to agree with you, HE didn't solve the problem. TO LIFE! Hugh Hixon at (Who does cryonics, and plumbing, and philosophy, and thinks Life makes a GREAT axiom, and always has a wrench handy, because sooner or later, it's all gonna' leak a bit!) P.S. -- If you wish to get his attention, you might try suggesting that a thousand years from now, the only living memory of him will be your's, having this conversation, and What Does He Think Of That? (Wrenches And Other Tools Available for most occasions -- HH) Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=360