X-Message-Number: 3669 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 20:13:21 -0500 From: Subject: SCI. CRYONICS Bogner Stephen Bogner (#3657) offers some comments and suggests a plan or map for furthering or even triggering mass acceptance of cryonics. First a couple of comments in response, then a few tentative specifics: The extent to which religious and similar mind-sets work against cryonics may be rather limited. After all, very few people are consistent in their beliefs, and more often than not accomodate opposing beliefs without even noticing it. A physician to whom I tried to sell cryonics once said, in dismissal, "I think God hed, 11 Jan 1995 20:13:21 -0500 From: Subject: SCI. CRYONICS Bogner Stephen Bogner (#3657) offers some comments and suggests a plan or map for furthering or even triggering mass acceptance of cryonics. First a couple of comments in response, then a few tentative specifics: The extent to which religious and similar mind-sets work against cryonics may be rather limited. will also lose their force as our credibility and numbers improve, and as accessibility and affordability increase. As far as maps and plans go, I for one would welcome Mr. Bogner's sketch for this. I am always skeptical about the value of elaborate plans and specific time tables; more often than not, it seems to me, it is more efficient just for each to work on what he does best, flying by the seat of his pants. (Spend your time on the work, not on the plans for the work.) My wife is horrified by this habit, and loves planning, and sometimes she has rescued me from my messes. No doubt the truly efficient way depends a good deal on the complexity of the proposed job and the number of people and the amount of money involved, as well as the time horizon. We can't easily predict how much psychological effect will be produced by "progress" in cryonics, short of actual revival of a thawed adult mammal. After all, 30 years ago or more some of us thought the progress in cryobiology was already impressive if not persuasive. But we will work for progress in any case, and perhaps we could divert a little of our energy toward trying to maximize the psychological impact of this progress. The Cryonics Institute and the Immortalist Society will probably arrange with the Ukrainian scientists, Drs. Pichugin and Zhegunov, and perhaps others, to extend the sheep head work, which already appears to have verified the effectiveness of our methods in avoidance of cracking. One of these extensions may be viability assays or biochemistry/physiology studies on particular tissues of the brains, similar to the many works cited by Dr. Fahy in studying post mortem human and other mammalian brains, which showed many biomarkers not much degraded even by very adverse conditions and very rough freezing. Studies of this sort should serve not only to improve the perception of progress, but perhaps also to suggest specific improvements. Already, for example, we have suggestions by Douglas Skrecky and others that our apparent success in avoiding cracking may relate to slowness of cooling and rewarming near specific critical temperatures, and not over-all slowness. Yvan Bozzonetti has suggested that very slow cooling and rewarming, while beneficial in preventing cracking, may be harmful with respect to microtubules. Mr. Bozzonetti has a chemical suggestion to improve this; perhaps an increase in speed of temperature change--outside the critical range--might make a difference. In any event, we probe and try, and think and probe and try again. All this activity will hopefully produce specific improvements, and should also (even when the specific improvements fail to emerge) produce a more favorable perception. Robert Ettinger Cryonics Institute Immortalist Society Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=3669