X-Message-Number: 3713 Date: 21 Jan 95 01:22:37 EST From: Michael Riskin <> Subject: Depression Depression is an "umbrella" term, that primarily speaks to the entire range of symptoms and consequences and secondarily covers causality and treatment. It is my opinion that it is impossible to "really know" (as compared to "intellectually understand"), depression, without having experienced it. A depression that leads to suicide can have diverse causality, but, the dynamic that ultimately exists before the suicide is that the individual believes and acts on, the premise that being dead (the absence of life sensations), is preferable to being alive (the continuation of life sensations). Some suicidal depression is apparantly organically based, and I make no further comment on that aspect. While it is true for some cryonicists, that the knowledge of cryonics and the act of "signing up", is life enhancing and reduces depression, for many others the picture is less clear. Why would a cryonicist commit suicide? Someone who by word and deed has taken steps to have extended life? The same reason as for any one else, the premise stated above. This is possibly and slightly modified by the chance that a cryonicists' suicide may factor in the chance of being cryopreserved nevertheless and saved with nanotechnology. The suicide becomes perceived as temporary rather that permanent. Perhaps some of us are cryonicists because of an unusually severe fear or loathing of permanent loss of identity...and therefore more vulnerable to a here and now existence that mimics loss of meaningful positive personal identity. And, as it is true that many manic-depressive people are unusually creative, sensitive and individualistic, it is my non scientific observation that many cryonicists (activists in particular), are similiar personality types... so, we may have an unusually high percentage of manic -depressives in our ranks. That would certainly account for some of the severe personality clashes that have occurred amongst activists. It is often stated that cryonicists are " individualist", libertarian types often, who are in conflict with the generally accepted tenets of society. This individualism, that leads to cryonic activism or membership, contrarily enough, can lead to an unusually severe and even suicidal depression when one believes their personal identity is collapsing. Do the various cryonics organizations have differing personalities of their own.... and thus attract different membership types... and account for perceived differences of membership characteristics? While the decision to chose cryopreservation may have immediate positive psychological consequences, sustained active membership might produce quite the opposite effect. As one more fully comprehends the reality of todays "cryonics probability", particularly since many of us will likely deanimate in far less than ideal conditions in the foreseeable future, it is easy to become even more depressed. Not only is the reality of the shortcomings of todays technology depressing ( when one does the half empty-half full routine), there is the continual minority position we hold in the universe, the obstacles we encounter from those in charge, the refusal of those among us who are capable of but refuse significant financial support, and yes and probably worst, what some cryonicists see as vile, destructive, mean-sprited, irrational, and petty behaviours in other cryonicists who supposedly hold similiar goals. Its' the old "my god, if you cant trust your friends, who can you trust?", problem. With all of that said, I am still regularly able to keep a focus on the fact that: only life offers the prospect of life experience; cryopreservation is still my best choice, by an infinite margin; in general I like cryonicists; I believe technological advances may proceed rapidly in my time; and those I care about the most will be cryopreserved. Something I feel particularly good about is that many of my friends and colleagues at Alcor are able to share feelings with each other, and seek and get, emotional support. Michael Riskin Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=3713