X-Message-Number: 3715 From: Date: Sat, 21 Jan 1995 14:05:01 -0500 Subject: approaches and perspectives Mike Darwin (#3711) expands on his assertion that cryonics activity can, and fairly often has, had negative impact on the families. This is certainly true as far as it goes, but I think he has skewed some of his observations and suggestions. 1. He says Cryonics Institute has less experience being on hand at time of death or earlier, and has less concern for delays or periods of warm ischemia. This latter is not true. We always emphasize the importance of prompt action, and especially prompt cooling. One of the results of our sheep head experiments was the observation that prompt washout and perfusion are very important to obtain the best results. The fact that prompt cooling ALONE can in some cases be very effective is attested to by the recoveries after drowning in cold water. What we do not have, that Alcor and BioPreservation may have, is a traveling team to do the work on-site. This is a matter of personnel and expense. But it is SELDOM possible for members at a distance to get prompt service from ANYONE in case of death with little warning. (Even when there is warning, the time estimates are usually so uncertain that the expense of a traveling-team standby is prohibitive. It is also easy to have foul-ups in travel arrangements, as recent history attests.) Our main present approach at Cryonics Institute is to engage, train, and equip local funeral directors to do the washout and perfusion. This is relatively very cheap--and we think the evidence shows it is effective. The conclusion that traveling teams are NOT the answer is shared by at least some who are close to Mike, including Mr. Mugler's group in the Washing DC area, who want to equip and train local volunteers. For anyone living in a city, local help will usually be better--both in effectiveness and expense--than traveling teams. 2. To my knowledge--based on members' questionnaires that I have seen--there is no one in CI with a medical history or complaints of depression. Mike says around 10% of the U.S. population have medically diagnosed depression. This discrepancy could mean any of several things, but I continue to think (based on more than one line of reasoning and information) it is possible that CI people may be a little closer to the general population mean in their personality profiles than (say) California cryonicists. Age alone could make a difference. 3. The most important element of skew in Mike's discussion lies in looking at absolute rather than relative numbers and in failing to give a clear cost/benefit analysis--even though Mike acknowledges that he advocates cryonics, and of course has done so extremely effectively for many years. The point is, there is very little new or different about cryonics as a bone of contention within a family. ANY use of money that potentially penalizes some relative is going cause trouble, whether it is building a football stadium or buying a too-expensive mausoleum or whatever. ANY relative in ANY situation may resent and effectively disown someone, alive or dead, who requires too much attention, causes too much trouble, or costs too much money. So what else is new? Against this the relatives, and especially the prospective patients, must balance the prospect of immortality, assigning that whatever weight they deem appropriate. More generally, it is ALWAYS easier to surrender than to fight--and sometimes better, if we are honest. I and others have long ago written about the psychological incentives to go along to get along, to be passive, to resign oneself, not to rock the boat, not to sacrifice some of what you have for something (however alluring) you might problematically get. As always, the question is one of realism, of correctly assessing the probabilities and the expected gain or expected value in the gamble, including accurate weighing of one's own emotional reactions. Some of this is addressed in a piece I did years back for the Immortalist Society on the probability of rescue; my conclusion, which I still believe valid, is that--even under present conditions--your chance of revival is odds-on favorable, much closer to unity (certainty) than to zero. And when you factor in the potential VALUE of success--whoosh!--look out below! As long as existing quantities hold out, this booklet is available on request; send $1 to the Immortalist Society, 24443 Roanoke, Oak Park MI 48237. Robert Ettinger Cryonics Institute Immortalist Society Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=3715