X-Message-Number: 3738
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 07:40:50 -0800
From: John K Clark <>
Subject: SCI.CRYONICS Yes, uploading is odd


Andro <> Wrote:

	      >If a brain was uploaded into a computer, and then downloaded,
	      >twice, into  empty brainless bodies cloned from the original, 
	      >which would be the  original person?  Both? Could one download 
	      >*be* both downloads? [...] My conclusion is, the upload is not 
	      >the original person.
It's backwards to decide how nature works and then look for
reasons to support that view. Let me change your thought
experiment a little and get rid of the computer and download
directly from you to the empty brainless clones, I don't think
you would say that  proves that you are not the "original person". 
I think there's a tendency for people to say that uploading and
self duplication is not possible because if they  were things
would be odd, not illogical, not self contradictory, just odd.
Well of course it would be odd, these things are not in any of
our experience, yet, so how could they be anything but peculiar?
Nature will be the way it wants to be and it doesn't give a
damn if late 20th century human beings think it's odd or not.
Someday well have to confront fundamental facts about our
existence that few of us have thought about and most just
assumed is the natural order of things ,but it's important to
remember that as long as something does not violate the laws of
logic or physics it can not be ruled out just because it's odd.
	      >They would be identical (in some ways) initially,
In what ways would they not be identical initially ?
	      >but would diverge  rapidly
Yes, they would diverge, how rapidly would depend on the
environment. We tend to think of identity and survival as an all
or nothing matter and at the present time it's largely true but
things change, sometimes in odd directions.
	      >To the child, or the upload, or both downloads from the single
	      >upload,  none of this matters as much as the fact of their          
	      >personal existence;  their being is more important than
	      >their origin, and more important than  the continued existence
	      >of their "parent".
I agree. I don't give much thought to my origin or whether my 5
year old self still survives or not , my double wouldn't either.
				   John K Clark          

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