X-Message-Number: 3750
Date: 26 Jan 95 01:05:13 EST
From: "Clifton  G. Clue Jr" <>
Subject: CRYONICS misc.

This message is from Mike Darwin (and yes, I can be reached at the address 
above, but it is generally better to reach me at the lab).

I have been following the debate about duplicates, identity, and so on, 
with a large grin :).  I won't step into it beyond complimenting John Clark 
on his thoughtful and logical posts.  All too often on the net people spend 
time railing at the mentally disordered, the confused, or the malicious.  
Every now and again its nice (I would hope) to see a compliment.  Thus, 
kudos to Mr. Clark.

I will say that I agree with Bob Etttinger that you can't drink a computer 
simulation of water atoms, no matter how perfect.  A fine point.  But one 
of the things that has always disturbed me about physics is the graininess 
and nonlinearlity at quantum levels.  It reminds  me of  my threatre days 
in high school.  I had a large role in set production/design and we put on 
a production of Noel Coward's (?) * Blithe Spirit.*  The night before dress 
rehersal I walked to the back of the auditorium to inspect the sets.  They 
looked great.  Better than a lot of community playhouse sets.  In fact they 
looked real.

The play was put on, and the characters moved through their paces and then 
we tore the set down.  Of course, when you looked at everything *up close* 
it didn't make any sense: walls made of muslin and starch, doors that 
opened onto nothingness or didn't open.! Freidkin and others have suggested 
(and it has been noted on the net here as well) that our whole universe may 
be just a play, just a simulation, or a Game of Life...  Clearly, there are 
no answers here yet.  A good argument for this is that you don't specify 
detail where you don't need it.  A play's set doesn't have to REALLY 
function as a home exposed to the elements, so why waste time, energy and 
money to build it to those specs.  Instead, you do the minimum you need to 
get the system to operate satisfactorily.

My point in this digression is merely to point out to Bob Ettinger and 
others that, while *we* can't quench our thirst with water modelled on our 
computers, maybe the creatures we create who will use our hydrogen, oxygen, 
nitrogen, etc. simulations or their analogs will be able to.  Think of the 
organisms gathering "food" and developing in computer life simulations: the 
"water" they swim and the "food" they "eat" sure turns the crank for 

So, Bob, et al., next time you pick up a glass of water the question you 
should ask yourself is not just whether or not the water is simulated, but 
whether you are too.

I'm not taking any bets myself, but it sure would be nice to know (if we 
are a simulation) if s/he/it running it has good tape backup and plans for 
future runs which give us all not only a second chance, but hopefully a 
nicer ride as well. It would also save a lot trouble.  All things 
considered, I'd rather be doing something else other than cutting off heads 
and freezing them; especially when they're friends.

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