X-Message-Number: 3842 From: (Thomas Donaldson) Subject: Re: CryoNet #3816 - #3820 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 17:09:56 -0800 (PST) Re UPLOADING: A remarkably opaque discussion. It may be true that intelligence is what distinguishes us from animals, but that does not imply that we wish to upload or preserve only the information- processing (those responsible for our intelligence) parts of our brain. WE are animals, and our feelings have great value for us. To be uploaded without them is just an elaborate version of death. (The discussion of intelligence also begs many questions, the first of which is a definition. We have indeed acquired various mental abilities (no doubt because of our brain structure and size). As we learn more about how brains fit together, we will come to realize that other animals have other mental abilities. For instance, some birds show a truly vast memory for the exact location of seeds they have stored away. It would be nice to specify the abilities which make up "intelligence" in a noncircular way ie. by referring to our brain structure). Nor does it follow that because our "selves" consist of information processing modules that uploading will necessarily be easy or possible at all in any practical sense. It does us no good, for instance, to be uploaded into a computer which (theoretically) reproduces our reactions perfectly, but 10 times more slowly. One insight coming from parallel computing is that a simple discussion of Turing machines simply isn't enough for practical purposes: time matters. A second insight is that the architecture of the computer can play a large part in how efficiently it performs the required information processing: a parallel computer designed for signal processing can be USED for other jobs, but will not be as competitive as one designed more for that particular job. As in most things, of course, when we buy or make computers we try to reach an optimum: not TOO restricted, but then still capable of doing what we want at a reasonable rate. But this leaves open a major question about uploading: WE DON'T YET KNOW AT ALL THAT ANY OTHER COMPUTER STRUCTURE THAN THAT OF OUR BRAIN WILL REALLY PERFORM OPTIMALLY in running us. That is the real issue for discussion when a question about whether uploading is possible at all is raised. The mere observation that we do information processing means virtually nothing as an answer to this question. I personally, in considering our biology, suspect (but would not hold to it as an axiom) that our present processing speed is the result of an optimization rather than a result of the fact that we are made of biological materials. Rhodopsin, the visual pigment, reacts so fast to light that it is under study for use in computers. Neurons pass electrical signals, but they also pass signals of other kinds (a very interesting fact!). If electrical circuits were so good for all the purposes we need them for in our own design, why then do we also have these OTHER means of transmitting signals? One would think that they would have become obsolete (ie. evolved away) long ago. For those who insist on arguing about this, please note my introduction to this paragraph. For that matter, we can be optimal for our present situation but not for other future ones. Long long life, Thomas Donaldson Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=3842