X-Message-Number: 3896
From:  (Thomas Donaldson)
Subject: Re: CryoNet #3882 - #3891
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 18:42:38 -0800 (PST)



Once more, with feeling, about uploading:

For Mr. Clark I have nothing more to say. His mind seems closed on the issue.
However, I note that Mr. Clark isn't the only person interested in that 
scenario, so I will raise some issues.

First, as a matter of fact, one of the better hardware designs for imitating
intelligence (but note that we are not JUST intelligence, we have feelings too)
are neural nets. Neurologists are also interested in neural nets as a way of
understanding how our brains work, but would universally point out that no
present neural net design really matches the design of our brain.

I will also say, as someone who has had substantial experience with parallel 
computing (of which neural nets are an interesting subset) the old idea of 
von Neumann and Turing that any computer can simulate the working of any other
suffers from a severe fault: they did NOT take into account such things as
timing (not to mention errors, protection of power sources, etc ... Tandem 
actually guards against errors by using a parallel computer, at least two
computers running the identical program). Most serious simulations with a 
single processor, even of a largish neural net, will take too long to match
the real-time speed of our brains.

I will finally point out that the biosciences have been advancing at a very

high rate. I don't find it at all out of the question that revival in 
biologicalform will become possible some time before computers (made of other 
materials)
become available capable of really matching what healthy brains can do. 
(As you can guess, I'm not a fan of Moravec). I will also say that the more
we learn about how life forms (including brains) work, the more respect I 
have gotten for their design. A lot of denigration of biological brains comes
because of a lack of understanding. 

Anyone who wants to be uploaded on their revival may be surprised at the 
computer in which they find themselves. They may find it hard to distinguish
from a brain.

Among other issues, speed is an interesting one. Rhodopsin, the visual pigment,
reacts very fast. I suspect that human beings have evolved to be fast enough
for their current mode of life; one part of that mode of life consists of 
having physical limbs of a given size which they must move in response to 
events in the world. (It does no good to realize that a threat is coming 
unless you can do something about it; similarly for a reward). This suggests
that one reason computers work so fast (well, we designed them to do so) is
that they don't have limbs or senses and aren't involved in surviving in the 
world. I DON'T MEAN THIS AS A JUSTIFICATION OF OUR CURRENT PROCESSING SPEED,
OR OUR CURRENT MODE OF LIFE. But it does help to understand things before
we go off and modify them. I for one would not like to share my "brain" with
many other personalities, and the same for my limbs and body. If I still
live in the world, then I would have one or more bodies and MAY meet with
the same issue of speed. When I need speed, naturally, I'd like to get it,
but that may not be always.

Some of these issues involve personal values. That's fine. If when I awaken
the human race has gone off on umpteen different incompatible paths, why not?
I would just hope that each of us thinks carefully before they change 
themselves in any irreversible way.

			Long long life,

				Thomas Donaldson
 



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