X-Message-Number: 3896 From: (Thomas Donaldson) Subject: Re: CryoNet #3882 - #3891 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 18:42:38 -0800 (PST) Once more, with feeling, about uploading: For Mr. Clark I have nothing more to say. His mind seems closed on the issue. However, I note that Mr. Clark isn't the only person interested in that scenario, so I will raise some issues. First, as a matter of fact, one of the better hardware designs for imitating intelligence (but note that we are not JUST intelligence, we have feelings too) are neural nets. Neurologists are also interested in neural nets as a way of understanding how our brains work, but would universally point out that no present neural net design really matches the design of our brain. I will also say, as someone who has had substantial experience with parallel computing (of which neural nets are an interesting subset) the old idea of von Neumann and Turing that any computer can simulate the working of any other suffers from a severe fault: they did NOT take into account such things as timing (not to mention errors, protection of power sources, etc ... Tandem actually guards against errors by using a parallel computer, at least two computers running the identical program). Most serious simulations with a single processor, even of a largish neural net, will take too long to match the real-time speed of our brains. I will finally point out that the biosciences have been advancing at a very high rate. I don't find it at all out of the question that revival in biologicalform will become possible some time before computers (made of other materials) become available capable of really matching what healthy brains can do. (As you can guess, I'm not a fan of Moravec). I will also say that the more we learn about how life forms (including brains) work, the more respect I have gotten for their design. A lot of denigration of biological brains comes because of a lack of understanding. Anyone who wants to be uploaded on their revival may be surprised at the computer in which they find themselves. They may find it hard to distinguish from a brain. Among other issues, speed is an interesting one. Rhodopsin, the visual pigment, reacts very fast. I suspect that human beings have evolved to be fast enough for their current mode of life; one part of that mode of life consists of having physical limbs of a given size which they must move in response to events in the world. (It does no good to realize that a threat is coming unless you can do something about it; similarly for a reward). This suggests that one reason computers work so fast (well, we designed them to do so) is that they don't have limbs or senses and aren't involved in surviving in the world. I DON'T MEAN THIS AS A JUSTIFICATION OF OUR CURRENT PROCESSING SPEED, OR OUR CURRENT MODE OF LIFE. But it does help to understand things before we go off and modify them. I for one would not like to share my "brain" with many other personalities, and the same for my limbs and body. If I still live in the world, then I would have one or more bodies and MAY meet with the same issue of speed. When I need speed, naturally, I'd like to get it, but that may not be always. Some of these issues involve personal values. That's fine. If when I awaken the human race has gone off on umpteen different incompatible paths, why not? I would just hope that each of us thinks carefully before they change themselves in any irreversible way. Long long life, Thomas Donaldson Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=3896