X-Message-Number: 4070 Date: 23 Mar 95 09:42:51 EST From: "Steven B. Harris" <> Subject: CRYONICS: Self-circuits Dear Cryonet: Once again you guys are after a definition for consciousness as a binary thing, on or off. But let me propose, as in the case of identity and life itself, that you may not have such a "thing" in reality. I suspect that "consciousness" is an emergent property of complex adaptive systems, a fuzzy concept and a fuzzy reality. I infer (though Descartes would not have agreed) that a dog is conscious, the same way I do another person-- I watch the behavior, I look into the eyes, and it appears that there is "somebody home." After spending a lot of time with a dog, I can imagine (I think) a bit of what it must be like to *be* a dog, sometimes. But the problem is that there is no dividing line, all the way down. Mammals are conscious. Probably insects, although the compound eyes do tend to start to mess up my ability to infer mental state. With diminishing complexity of the nervous system I soon lose the empathic feeling for what it must be like to be an organism, but I don't imagine that this represents some kind of objective qualitative change. Verily, if you have a fine microscope and watch a flexible paramecium nosing and exploring about something on a glass slide, and then "frantically" trying to find a way out of a shrinking bubble of drying water, it's almost impossible not to imagine that there is some kind of awareness there. Certainly there is a lot of signal processing going on, on the cell membrane of a stressed animalcule. A big ciliated protozoan is sort of one giant neuron, and it gets a lot of processor bang for the buck. It's alive, irritable, active, *thinking* in a small way, using some kind of interplay of subcellular component workings to do its "mental" business. I'm not going to imagine some indivisible a-tom of consciousness, consisting of a "circuit." A circuit of what? Two-neuron creatures might be conscious (but dim bulbs), but one-neuron creatures are just mechanisms-- automata? Brian (forgive me if I misrepresent him) is trying to creep up on this sorites paradox from the other direction, the one called "Theseus's ship." If I replace one board, do I have the same ship? Two? Three? There is no clearly conscious creature that I cannot make into a clearly unconscious creature with an infinity of small steps, such that you cannot draw the line in any rational or natural way between. Not if we work with ordinary materials. You really must posit some metaphysical essence (i.e., what binary types do, when faced with fuzzy problems) to make such a line. I'm not a fundamentalist, and I don't feel the need to do that. Steve P.S. To Dave C. If I *really* wanted to take risks I could build a cryonics nursing home, get a bunch of moribund people in there who are going to be frozen, staff it with folks who don't know much medicine, and wait for the deaths, disasters, and the angry families and accusations of hidden interest. That will draw coroners like flies. What do you think? Are you guys really conscious down there? Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=4070