X-Message-Number: 4123 From: (Thomas Donaldson) Subject: Mr. Bauge's discussions Date: Sat, 1 Apr 1995 10:44:05 -0800 (PST) Unfortunately, since I have a wife who is not a citizen of the US, I have seen some of the activities of the INS of which he speaks. My wife had and still has a Green Card, which makes her legal, but the idea that those who are not American citizens have no rights still sticks. There are lots of pieces to that particular engine, too: when I was in Australia I suspected discrimination against me because I wasn't Australian. But the INS does in fact violate all the proud words of the Constitution, or the words of the Statue of Liberty. I can understand why Mr. Bauge is indignant about that. It should also be clear that Mr. Bauge made a grave error when he tried to maintain the suspension of his grandfather independently of any other cryonics society. This would have been an equally grave error regardless of the INS appearing on the scene: no one can really say that they will, alone, be able to accomplish this task for as long as it takes. Sure, you may feel healthy, but even cryonicists have felt healthy and then their cryonics society suddenly finds that they must be suspended, unexpectedly and immediately. Other things, of course, can also prevent you from carrying out your resolution to keep a relative frozen: bankruptcy combined with an injury which puts you in a wheelchair and raises the cost of your own care would do the same. But all of those dangers have nothing at all to do with whether or not you are libertarian, whether or not you are a citizen, how stubborn you are, and all the other issues Mr. Bauge and his critics keep raising. What we have here is one more unfortunate proof that cryonics cannot be done alone. No more than that. And if all the critics of Mr. Bauge would take their discussion of other matters to some other net address, that would be good for the rest of us. Mr. Bauge actually makes some good (though perhaps uncomfortable for Americans) points, but none of them relate to cryonics. (And I mean that for Mr. Bauge too: sure cryonics might go better in a more libertarian setting, but it would go better if everybody was an atheist, too. Neither of these facts make it worthwhile to discuss bringing about libertarianism or atheism ON A CRYONICS BBS). Best and long long life, Thomas Donaldson Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=4123