X-Message-Number: 4131 From: Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 13:18:34 -0400 Subject: SCI. CRYONICS Liar Peter Merel (#4119) implies that my (and Aristotle's) debunking of the Liar "paradox" must be wrong because Bertrand Russell was smarter than I am, and he took it seriously. Certainly Russell was smarter than I am; I'm not sure if he was smarter than Aristotle. But smart is one thing; right is another. He also mentions Goedel, about whom I'll go into detail another time. John Clark (#4121) says Russell and I are both wrong because Goedel did better. He also says I am talking about Russell's Theory of Types; I am not. I am talking about meaningfulness, and I suggest a simple (and far from original) criterion: I suggest that a statement is meaningful only if IN PRINCIPLE it can be tested or verified. However, this "simple" criterion needs a good deal of examination. One immediate objection will be a counterexample such as: "All unicorns are white." This appears at first glance to be meaningful but not verifiable. Such are the traps and subtleties of language. Actually, the statement IS verifiable--to the extent that it is meaningful. Unicorns are mythical creatures, and their attributes are whatever the myth says or implies. Unicorns "are" white if those who subscribe to the myth believe it, and this belief can in principle be verified. In any event, we can deal with the situation, using either Aristotelean or fuzzy logic. From the Aristotelean perspective, the answer is simple: since "believers" come in all shades, many with no opinion on the color of unicorns, or with contrary opinions, the statement is false. Another proffered counterexample--the detailed characterization of a system in the distant past. Quantum uncertainties supposedly rule out detailed inferences over long time periods, even given maximum present information. If we accept the assumptions, this is not a counterexample, just an example of a meaningless statement. This does not exhaust the possibilities, of course, but as far as I know there is no example of a statement that "should" be regarded as clearly meaningful, yet is clearly unverifiable in principle. Perhaps a reader will supply his favorite example (not counting Goedelian "examples"). Robert Ettinger Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=4131