X-Message-Number: 4166
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 09:10:32 -0700
From: John K Clark <>
Subject: SCI.CRYONICS The Soul

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In #4159   Wrote:

	     >Peter Merel (#4154) and John Clark (#4156) both say the "Self
	     >Circuit" concept is similar to that of "soul." This (especially 
	     >at this stage of the game) almost makes me tear my hair out. 
	     >Surely, surely I have made the difference clear
	   
You haven't made the difference clear, at least to me. Nobody
denies that "Without subjectivity there is no life as we know it"
or that feelings exists and are important, the question is,
how does the Self Circuit differ from the soul? I don't think
the Self Circuit  is a materialistic theory. You say that we
might one day understand how the self circuit works, but I have
the distinct impression that if you saw it all spelled out you
would break it down to the simplest building blocks it could be
built from and you would notice that the resulting simple parts
were not very remarkable and say there must be more to
consciousness than that, you must be missing some intangible ...
something. Like the soul the self circuit is unique, it can not
be duplicated in a machine or even another biological body,
there can only be one "you" at a time, but nobody  can  give a
materialist explanation why that is so, just some vague talk
about the "pseudo" duplicates lacking vital essence or something. 
You say the Self Circuit operates because of "some portion (s) or 
aspect (s) of the brain or its functions" yet a machine that duplicates 
all those aspects and functions is still not the real thing according 
to you because, again, it lacks some vague vital essence.
 
Another problem I have with The Self Circuit is that it gives us
a nice worm cozy feeling of consciousness  but does absolutely
nothing else, it effects behavior not one bit so The Turing Test
doesn't work thus like the soul, the scientific method can not
be used to investigate it. It's just tacked on, if everybody on
earth suddenly lost their soul, or their Self Circuit, except you
you'd never be able see any difference. Because it doesn't
effect behavior Evolution could not have produced it, like the
soul, no natural means could have produced it, no natural means
can be used to examen it.
 

				  John K Clark          


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