X-Message-Number: 4194
From:  (Jim0123)
Newsgroups: sci.cryonics
Subject: Cryoprotective Proteins + stuff
Date: 11 Apr 1995 20:17:57 -0400
Message-ID: <3mf67l$>

Seems my first post failed ... here goes again ...

I hate to interrupt the stream of metaphysical thought here (which
suggests a lack of any actual progress on the *reality* side of the
cyronics issue), but has anyone seen any credible research into
the utility of these cyroprotective proteins and polysaccarides
found in arctic fish and small animals which are more-or-less
frozen during hibernation ? 

>From what I have read, it seems that the freeze-damage issue is one
which cannot be ignored (except perhaps by cyronics salespersons).
The degree of membrane damage is very high once actual freezing
is done - so high that freezing until some disease is cured is no
longer the issue, but instead freezing until some miracle in bio
ultrastructure repair is availible ... which is surely a lot further
away than mere cures for cancers or HIV or most anything else.
Storage at LN temperatures is *very* expensive and the longer the
term, the more likely that bankrupsies, accidents, earthquakes
and such will damage the stored bodies.

Since no breakthrough in the cell-damage area seems imminent,
perhaps more effort should be spent on near-freezing 'hibernation'
techniques. With proper use of cyroprotectants and inhibitors for
the more reactive bodily compounds, perhaps a 1-5 year 'cold sleep'
could be realized. This is not to be laughed at - those in need of
organ transplants or those suffering from nearly-curable illnesses
could really benifit from short-term stasis. Pushing the body temp
down into the 20 degree-f range, while avoiding actual freezing
via 'antifreeze' compounds ought to be managable and achievable.
If fish, insects and little animals can last the winter that way,
then humans should be able to do better. 

As an aside ... what research has been done relative to hard-freezing
at temperatures above that of LN2 ... say the -100...-150f range ? 
Obviously there will be more problems with slow chemistry of
reactive sugars and oxygen radicals, but not all that *much* more
than at LN2 temps ... perhaps still managable. IF this is viable, even
if only in the 50-100 year range, then why not set up a repository
in the colder areas of antartica where stable temperatures in that
range can be found just under the ice ? The ecological impact
would be about nil, and the maintenence costs equally low. Cheap
storage means *volume business* rather than just catering to
the wealthy eccentrics. Also, having dear aunt Judy or cousin
Frank on ice means more people interested in finding better ways
to prepare, store and revive said loved ones. 

So, more interest needs to be shown in the shorter-term solutions
and in reducing the costs of storage. Nature hints that this may
be possible ... especially the non-freezing hibernation trick. There
seems to be this ideal of being able to store someone 10,000
years - but this just is not realistic at this time and seems
a waste of money to dabble in. MAJOR improvements in chemistry
and physics will be required to make deep-freezing a viable
technology. Anyway ... if you can string together enough five-year
hibernation cycles, you may live to see those major improvements.

In any event - more physics, less metaphysics - or *nothing* will
ever be accomplished.

Comments ?  Info ? (flames?)
--Jim

[ Language, while a product of thought, is an imprecise
  mechanism for the conveyance of thought. ]

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