X-Message-Number: 4194 From: (Jim0123) Newsgroups: sci.cryonics Subject: Cryoprotective Proteins + stuff Date: 11 Apr 1995 20:17:57 -0400 Message-ID: <3mf67l$> Seems my first post failed ... here goes again ... I hate to interrupt the stream of metaphysical thought here (which suggests a lack of any actual progress on the *reality* side of the cyronics issue), but has anyone seen any credible research into the utility of these cyroprotective proteins and polysaccarides found in arctic fish and small animals which are more-or-less frozen during hibernation ? >From what I have read, it seems that the freeze-damage issue is one which cannot be ignored (except perhaps by cyronics salespersons). The degree of membrane damage is very high once actual freezing is done - so high that freezing until some disease is cured is no longer the issue, but instead freezing until some miracle in bio ultrastructure repair is availible ... which is surely a lot further away than mere cures for cancers or HIV or most anything else. Storage at LN temperatures is *very* expensive and the longer the term, the more likely that bankrupsies, accidents, earthquakes and such will damage the stored bodies. Since no breakthrough in the cell-damage area seems imminent, perhaps more effort should be spent on near-freezing 'hibernation' techniques. With proper use of cyroprotectants and inhibitors for the more reactive bodily compounds, perhaps a 1-5 year 'cold sleep' could be realized. This is not to be laughed at - those in need of organ transplants or those suffering from nearly-curable illnesses could really benifit from short-term stasis. Pushing the body temp down into the 20 degree-f range, while avoiding actual freezing via 'antifreeze' compounds ought to be managable and achievable. If fish, insects and little animals can last the winter that way, then humans should be able to do better. As an aside ... what research has been done relative to hard-freezing at temperatures above that of LN2 ... say the -100...-150f range ? Obviously there will be more problems with slow chemistry of reactive sugars and oxygen radicals, but not all that *much* more than at LN2 temps ... perhaps still managable. IF this is viable, even if only in the 50-100 year range, then why not set up a repository in the colder areas of antartica where stable temperatures in that range can be found just under the ice ? The ecological impact would be about nil, and the maintenence costs equally low. Cheap storage means *volume business* rather than just catering to the wealthy eccentrics. Also, having dear aunt Judy or cousin Frank on ice means more people interested in finding better ways to prepare, store and revive said loved ones. So, more interest needs to be shown in the shorter-term solutions and in reducing the costs of storage. Nature hints that this may be possible ... especially the non-freezing hibernation trick. There seems to be this ideal of being able to store someone 10,000 years - but this just is not realistic at this time and seems a waste of money to dabble in. MAJOR improvements in chemistry and physics will be required to make deep-freezing a viable technology. Anyway ... if you can string together enough five-year hibernation cycles, you may live to see those major improvements. In any event - more physics, less metaphysics - or *nothing* will ever be accomplished. Comments ? Info ? (flames?) --Jim [ Language, while a product of thought, is an imprecise mechanism for the conveyance of thought. ] Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=4194