X-Message-Number: 4657
Date:  Fri, 21 Jul 95 13:01:36 
From: Steve Bridge <>
Subject: Selling your body for cryonics

To CryoNet
>From Steve Bridge
July 21, 1995

In reply to   Message #4652
              From: Peter Merel <>
              Subject: CRYONICS Organlegging?
              Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 01:52:59 +1000 (EST)

>What I'm about to suggest is exceedingly morbid, and in the worst 
>possible taste, and might very well not be feasible, but for all I know 
>it has a chance of working so I'll suggest it and let people shout it 
>down.

>If your grandmother were content to go with the neuro option, and if
>her organs were in good enough shape, perhaps upon her death she might
>be able to sell them? As I understand it people do sell kidneys, corneas,
>bone marrow and other body parts, and I've heard sums mentioned that are
>in the minimum range.

>I certainly don't suggest you run out looking for buyers right now, nor
>that you even mention such a bizarre idea to your grandmother, but 
>perhaps people here might be able to say whether such a thing could be 
>possible?

     OK, Peter, I'll shout at it a bit.  In the United States, it is my 
understanding, one cannot sell one's organs.  People used to sell their 
blood plasma; but AIDS pretty much ended even that practice.  If KES's 
grandmother lives in China, she might have a slightly better chance of 
success.  BUT...

     I'm assuming this woman is in her 70's or 80's.  Would YOU want a 
transplanted organ from someone who has died at the age of 80?  We usually 
want an "upgrade" in a transplant, not a very temporary fix.  AND...

     For cryonicists to do any decent job of suspension, we need an intact 
circulatory system to pump the protective fluids through the brain.  This 
is exceedingly difficult to accomplish with either just a severed head or 
a body with pieces missing -- just like you can't water the garden if 
someone removes one foot of hose every 10 feet.   BESIDES...

     We know from discussions that today's transplant surgeons don't WANT 
organs from someone who has had a collection of 20 or so drugs pumped in, 
creating who-knows-what kinds of changes in the tissue which might make 
transplant impossible (sure, there is a small chance our solutions might 
make transplant *easier*, but who is going to spend 100 million dollars or 
more to find out?).     

     Sorry, Peter, that suggestion is pretty much out.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Then in response to: Message #4653
                     From: Peter Merel <>
                     Subject: CRYONICS Insurance by proxy?
                     Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 02:13:36 +1000 (EST)

>Another idea about Kes's problem: couldn't Kes take out sufficient life
>insurance _on_himself_ to cover his grandmother's suspension? I guess
>the problem is that he might stop making payments for some reason or
>other. Perhaps the arrangement might be that if the policy were
>cancelled for any reason, then Kes's grandmother would be thawed and
>given back to the family/authorities for interrment. I know that this
>requires quite some wait for payment on the part of the cryonics 
>provider, but perhaps one might be willing to do it?

     "Quite some wait?"  Yeah, maybe 40-60 years.  The problem isn't 
merely that he might stop payments of the insurance.  The problem is that 
he doesn't die for decades (sorry, KES; you probably don't see that as a 
"problem").  A cryonics company spends $10,000 to $30,000 in upfront 
expenses --which must be paid to airlines, chemical companies, etc. NOW --  
but the cryonics company has no income for the suspension until KES goes 
into suspension himself.  A couple of these little waits and a cryonics 
organization goes out of business.  Alcor had one unfunded suspension 
patient in 1993 (we didn't discover the funding was no good until after 
the money was spent and the patient in LN2) and it created huge financial 
problems for us.  Cryonics is hard enough to do without adding that 
complication.

     Sorry to sound like a hard-ass here; but we cannot save EVERYONE.  
Trying to save everyone for free means *no one* gets saved; because the 
company goes out of business.  

Steve Bridge, Alcor Foundation

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