X-Message-Number: 4717 From: (Brian Wowk) Newsgroups: sci.cryonics Subject: Re: Freezing living brain as opposed to dead brain Date: 2 Aug 1995 20:46:01 GMT Message-ID: <3voo69$> References: <3uskqc$> <3vhnkg$> In <3vhnkg$> (GeorgeNet) writes: >Certainly this raises the issue then of none cyronic preservation via >direct brain information reading and transfer to a computer storage medium >with later tranfer to another viable "life container" whether that life >container be a new biological form or a computer/android type form. >With the tremendous electrical, computer , and electric sensor advances >this may prove to be viable more quickly than the conquest of the problems >of chemical freezing and thawing of biological tissue. >With the advent of MRI, PET etc there now seems to be a flood of >methodoligies to extract detailed info from a living brain and the >resolution of such devices gets pushed rapidly every year. This read-your-brain-into-a-computer-and-become-immortal-in- your-natural-lifetime meme seems to be acquiring the status of an Urban Legend. Where is this idea coming from? William Gibson novels? I'm beginning to fear that it might be like astrology; an insidiously destructive meme that no amount of reason will overcome. What we have here is a classic example of Occam's Razor. Q: What is the best way to get the information contained in your brain into the future? A: TAKE YOUR BRAIN WITH YOU into the future. What mental block is it that causes some poeple to respond with, "Read the contents of your brain into a computer (using some non-existent technology of unspecified lossiness), and then give your brain to a funeral director for prompt incineration (implied, but not usually stated). Look at it this way. A cryopreserved brain contains some 10^27 bits of information (about the same as a living brain; today's best cryonics procedures achieve *excellent* structural preservation, from the molecular level on up.) By comparison, the best medical imaging technologies available today (high resolution MRI) capture about 10^8 bits of brain information. Do you really want to travel into the future losing 10^19 marbles along the way? Nor are things likely to get any better soon. To capture all the subtle details of memory, personality, and identity you must resolve not only neurons, but also synapses, and *molecular contents* of synapses. Imaging technologies capable of this are not going to be realized in the natural lifetime of anyone reading this message. In fact, it is extremely unlikely that the kind of data gathering required for a brain upload will ever be achieved non-invasively. It is far more likely that advanced in-situ nanodevices will be required-- the kind that the *22nd* century (not the 21st) will bring. The post I am replying to began by questioning "the problems of chemical freezing and thawing of biological tissues." It is important that we keep in perspective what these problems are. Cryonics already preserves a level of structural and molecular information that no imaging technology will match for another 100 years. The remaining problems concern subtle chemical effects like cryoprotectant toxicities, and cooling/rewarming rates that affect our ability to retrieve brains in *perfect* (functionally viable) condition. By the standards of what imaging technology can do (or will be able to do for the foreseeable future), cryonics is already damn close to perfect. Don't get me wrong. I think that uploading (like star travel) will happen, and that it will be a very important part of humanity's future. But also like star travel, don't expect to see it tomorrow. And certainly don't expect it to save your life if you are living today. Brian Wowk MR Technology Group Institute for Biodiagnostics National Research Council of Canada and President CryoCare Foundation (Probably the world's only expert on both scanning brains AND freezing them.) Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=4717