X-Message-Number: 479 From att!ruc.dk!david Tue Oct 1 12:46:28 +0100 1991 Date: Tue, 1 Oct 91 12:46:28 +0100 From: (David Stodolsky) Message-Id: <> Subject: re cryonics/humanist >From email: >>>>>> David, it has been my experience that Humanist rank right up there with Unitarians in their hostility to cryonics. <<<<<< I have been both a Humanist (mostly inactive) and in favor of cryonics without the least thought that there was any point of conflict. Is there one? I recall an old saying about the fact that the different factions on the Left in the USA were always fighting each other. They had no basis for fighting with people on the Right, of course, since rightists were coming from such totally different assumptions, that an argument could not really go beyond, "We got it right, you got it wrong." Not very intellectually satisfying. It should be realized that active Humanists include many people who are overcoming the religious orientation. They may just have come to terms with death as final. Accepting cryonics means they have to reverse again this emotionally loaded assessment. If cryonics was presented to them before the first change it could be accepted more easily, in fact it should be easier than accepting death as final. Another alternative is that of contacting totally "reeducated" Humanists, who have probably become inactive. They would probably be hard to reach, because this issue is settled for them and they have moved on to other things. Similarly with Unitarians, there is the tension between belief and acceptance of death as final. I recall a saying, "It is harder to get a Unitarian minister to tell you whether s/he believes in God, than to get a girl to tell you if she is a virgin." Humanists already agree that there is only one life and it's inseparable from physical existence. This brings Humanists closer to a *reasoned* agreement with cryonics than theists. Theists are accustomed to holding conflicting beliefs and so may easily accept cryonics. I would not expect this acceptance to be very stable (no offence intended). The fact is that the church offers a competing brand of immortality, Humanism does not. I think a careful analysis of the social impediments to cryonics would show that religiously based ideas are of fundamental importance. This could be true even thought religious people as individuals might not be opposed to cryonics. If the cryonics movement can convince Humanists that it makes logical sense to spend their money on suspension, I doubt if any emotional resistance would last long. In my earlier message I mentioned the International Ethical Union. It is actually the International Humanist and Ethical Union. IHEU office Oudkerkhof 11 3512 GH Utrecht The Netherlands David S. Stodolsky Messages: + 45 46 75 77 11 x 24 41 Department of Computer Science Tel: + 45 31 95 92 82 Bldg. 20.1, Roskilde University Center Internet: Post Box 260, DK-4000 Roskilde, Denmark Fax: + 45 46 75 42 01 [ David, some time ago Cryonics magazine published Steve Harris' article "Many Are Cold But Few Are Frozen: A Humanist Looks at Cryonics", which may give more perspective on Humanists vs. Cryonicists. Also, if I recall correctly, Arel Lucas also wrote an article for Cryonics magazine (or was it a talk at a Lake Tahoe Life Extension Festival?) about her experience presenting cryonics to humanists. - KQB ] Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=479