X-Message-Number: 5536 Date: Wed, 03 Jan 96 13:59:34 From: Steve Bridge <> Subject: More on Michels tragedy To CryoNet >From Steve Bridge, Alcor January 3, 1995 Re: Message #5532 Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 22:33:32 -0500 (EST) From: Robin Helweg-Larsen <> Subject: Re: CryoNet 5462; Rob Michels All of us were very upset by Rob Michels' death and non-suspension. Rob was a friend of several Alcor members, including some of our staff. However, I really can't publicly respond to Robin Helweg-Larsen in any specific way, since a number of these deliberations and actions are confidential, some out of consideration for the feelings of Rob's family in this tragedy. The legal specifics of this case are not public and might never be. This is something that every Alcor President has had to consider in both legal and patient confidentiality matters -- what to tell and what not to tell. However, Rob was also an open cryonicist and a futurist. As I would choose in similar circumstances, I believe Rob would want these issues debated for the benefit of other cryonicists. While I cannot discuss any more specifics than I did in my original post, I encourage CryoNetters to debate the *general* issues here. We can all learn something for future cases; and Alcor and I might get ideas on this case. Some general issues to discuss might be: 1. How likely is it that a small (say 10 cc) amount of brain tissue, possibly randomly taken from a human brain after at least seven days at room temperature will contain useful information about that individual's identity? 2. How can we best educate police forces and medical examiners to the legalities of cryonic suspension, including whole body anatomical donation? 3. How can we get past the requirements in all states that an autopsy be performed in cases of suspicious death, and which in most states give the coroner or medical examiner almost unlimited power to determine what is to be done? (Some successes in the past notwithstanding.) 4. What statements and conditions should cryonicists place in their suspension paperwork? To what extent can these statements obligate the suspension organization? For instance, if someone decides to require an organization to guarantee that it will spend a million dollars on recovering his remains or suing legal authorities, but he only provides $50,000 in funding, should the organization accept him as a member? (This situation is only hypothetical and should not be interpreted to mean some Alcor member has actually done that.) 5. Obviously some legal cases are ones where a cryonics organization is required to spend whatever is required, no matter what, because its survival and the survival of its patients are on the line. Alcor fought at least two of those, in the cases against the Riverside County Coroner and the California Department of Health. What other types of cases might be worth the full resources of the organization? (Someday, of course, it is likely that EACH organization will have to answer this question personally -- and more than once.) As you debate these questions, please remember to place yourself into the situation of a Director or Officer of a cryonics company with several patients already in suspension (let's say they include your spouse or parent or best friend). The decisions that are made in every legal situation and some technical ones include the question: What can we do here that will not increase the risk to current patients or compromise our ability to suspend other members? That risk can range as far as 1) delay in preparing for the next suspension, 2) financial collapse from legal bills, 3) reverse lawsuits that endanger the legal status of the organization, and even 4) protesters with Molotov cocktails. Steve Bridge, President Alcor Foundation Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=5536